Covid-19

**boozehound** · 06-29-2021, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by xu82

I wish them well, but yes, they had an opportunity to get vaccinated. I’ll take my chances and they can take theirs. I’m just moving forward. Life goes on, until it doesn’t. I’m rolling with it.

I agree with this, with the exception that a lot of kids still aren't eligible for the vaccine. If a variant were to circulate that was more harmful to young children than the current crop of COVID varieties that would probably change my calculus. With the current forms' impact on young children it isn't really an issue.

I also feel bad for the immunocompromised and people who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons. That's part of why I want as many healthy people vaccinated as possible so that we can (1) reduce variants and (2) protect vulnerable populations through herd immunity.

xu82 · 06-29-2021, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by boozehound

I agree with this, with the exception that a lot of kids still aren't eligible for the vaccine. If a variant were to circulate that was more harmful to young children than the current crop of COVID varieties that would probably change my calculus. With the current forms' impact on young children it isn't really an issue.

I also feel bad for the immunocompromised and people who can't get the vaccine for medical reasons. That's part of why I want as many healthy people vaccinated as possible so that we can (1) reduce variants and (2) protect vulnerable populations through herd immunity.

I understand that, and you find ways to work around it as the situation currently stands. Maybe the vet’s office has an immunocompromised employee? I don’t know, but they say wear a mask and I put it on without hesitation or complaint. There are no perfect solutions here, we just do the best we can.

**GIMMFD** · 06-30-2021, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by boozehound

Take the whole HCQ thing for example. Nobody knew what HCQ was. We initially heard it was being used to treat some COVID patients, but I don't think anyone had much of an opinion initially. The Trump started touting it. His supporters treated it like a miracle cure and started trying to buy it up like crazy. His substantial group of haters (including much of the media) then had an equally strong negative opinion.

Honestly I think that the whole thing is just a function of how broken we are as a society, and how the internet is destroying us. This could/should have been a galvanizing moment for the United Stated, and a point of overall pride. Instead it's basically been the opposite.

I'll be the first to admit, and put my hand up that I was wrong, I actually had big faith in HCQ when it was being theorized, the mechanism which was proposed (I won't bore you with details) made a lot of sense when speaking with other professionals who took an interest to reading up on the stuff and bouncing ideas off each other. Obviously, I would not have coined it a "miracle drug," nor prescribe it to a bunch of patients with COVID, but I thought if a condition was deteriorated and nothing seemed to be working it was worth a helluva shot. Subsequent studies showed that was very wrong, and Remdesivir and Dexamethasone were the ones that won out.

I agree with your main point, that there has been some great rallying done by people a shit ton smarter than I will ever, though we had been working on mRNA technology for years, to get those vaccines with the efficacy out in such a rapid time was incredible, and though the long-term effects are unknown currently, I still find it a brilliant feat. There have been people who have worked countless hours, and though the sheer level of people getting sick and dying is never something to celebrate, I do think the people that held their shit together, fought for advocating for patient care, and navigated tough waters through a full blown pandemic is amazing. Pandemics are going to be a part of life, we know from history that one's going to spring up every so often, but being able to follow the advances through modern medicine in a first-person view rather than reading up on history has been a heck of an experience.

Originally Posted by noteggs

Agree with you both and don’t really see a big difference in these two comments. You rightly pointed towards a positive in which there have been several. First and foremost, front line workers have been amazing.

Despite these great accomplishments, we’ve allowed politics to overshadow them and even tarnish the medical profession. Hate to speak for GIMMFD, but think that’s the point here.

A couple more examples on top of the Trump’s mismanagement and Fauci’s mask blunder which stays with us today.

- Future VP stating she would not take a vaccine because of Trump’s involvement. We lost a big chunk of the black community on getting them vaccinated.

- Allow Cuomo to blame the CDC for his own decision to return nursing home patients which was the contrary.

- Have the two of the most prestigious medical journals in the world print a complete bogus study as peered reviewed.

- Allow the teachers union to be in the discussions with the CDC on opening schools.

Unfortunately, I could go on and on and describe the ridiculousness from the right. Just reread this thread if you want a refresher lol.

Nope, not speaking for me at all there bud, honestly you echo my sentiments. Not to get political, but the handling of the situation was a shit show for a lack of better terms. Obviously in science, our whole thing is "test a hypothesis, analyze results," and we're not going to be right every time, no matter how good the theory sounds *cough* HCQ *cough*, and in a situation where people are getting ill, intubated, dying, etc. that brings on a certain baseline level of fear. When people are scared, they tend to lash out, we got a few things wrong, and that was amplified by different viewpoints, which you could attribute not only politically (and I'm not saying either side was right, might I add) but also from media reports, the internet as mentioned, etc. It seems everyone turned into an epidemiologist, couple that with some mistakes while testing theories and we have a perfect storm causing a rift between opposing viewpoints. It was a chance for healthcare to get a win in showing, "hey look, we're not just pill pushers, we're not insurance companies, we aren't making toxic vaccines on purpose, we're here to help," which ended up turning into what we have today.

In the end, I hate it wasn't a clean win for healthcare, but I also think on reflection that it couldn't have been avoided. People are entitled to opinions, in an ideal world, we'd sit and listen to people with the knowledge of what's going on, see where their heads at, and form a decision based on that. However, for that to occur, we also as scientists, providers, etc. have to explain what's going on in relatable terms, and be sure to foster an appropriate level of understanding (which I think was also lacking) and it would have to remove the fear equation completely, which is impossible. It's the same as seeing that jaded, burnt out doctor going into a room, spitting a diagnosis and saying "here take this, we're gonna schedule you for a follow up in x amount of days." That patient is frightened, has no idea what the hell happening, and to build a better rapport you sit there and you explain things to their understanding and address concerns. No rapport here was established, different viewpoints pushed different narratives through accessibility of technology these days (I mean come on, all the hot takes on Twitter were nauseating), and what happened is we had a firestorm of people dealing with the psychological pressure of basically being locked-up and having limited information on what was going on. The information that did come out turned into conflicting arguments, and here we are. As healthcare providers, we should 100% be proud of the work that was done to get through these times, but we have to understand the limitations as well.

XU_Lou · 06-30-2021, 03:25 PM

"So the researchers divided the patients into four age ranges: 20-39, 40-59, 60-79, and over 80. They found that in the two younger groups - including adults up to age 60 - being obese was associated with nearly ALL the risk that Covid would lead to intensive care or death. The findings held even after they adjusted for many different potential confounding factors, like smoking, non-weight-related illnesses, and wealth.

The excess risk was extremely high even for people who weren’t morbidly obese - defined as a body-mass index of 40 or more. A person between 40 and 60 with a BMI of 35 - someone who is 230 pounds and 5’8” - had about five times the risk of dying of Covid of a person of normal weight. For younger adults, the excess risk was even higher, and for morbidly obese people even higher still.

In contrast, people of normal weight under 40 are at essentially no risk of death from Covid. The researchers found their rate to be under 1 in 10,000 per year. Even in the 40 to 59 age range, normal-weight adults had an annual risk well under 1 in 1,000."

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/...d-is-like-aids

Other studies have also come to the exact same conclusion. Covid is a risk for the old and the obese..... and yet, world leaders and the media wanted you all to think that everyone was at risk. And now they are trying to force young children to take a vaccine they have no use for.

cutterX · 07-01-2021, 12:59 PM

So what you're saying Lou is when Trump got sick and he checked a couple of those boxes it was a helluva lot more serious than he or anyone else let on!!

XU_Lou · 07-01-2021, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by cutterX

So what you're saying Lou is when Trump got sick and he checked a couple of those boxes it was a helluva lot more serious than he or anyone else let on!!

Who knows??? Does it matter???

XU_Lou · 07-01-2021, 02:29 PM

The War on Reality - this article does a great job of summing up the lies, fear mongering and the refusal of authorities and health officials to learn from new data and information as the pandemic progressed. I encourage all of you to read this:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...ality-gutentag

Strange Brew · 07-01-2021, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by cutterX

So what you're saying Lou is when Trump got sick and he checked a couple of those boxes it was a helluva lot more serious than he or anyone else let on!!

Not really. He received HCQ and was touting it because it worked for him.