Covid-19

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Originally Posted by drudy23

Getting covid gives you natural anti-bodies - check
Natural anti-bodies prevent you from getting covid thus preventing you from spreading it - check
Vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting covid - check
Vaccine prevents serious symptoms but doesn't prevent you from spreading it - check

Hmmm - one sounds better than the other.

There's enough evidence to say they don't know how long natural immunity lasts, but there is already enough is to know the vaccine is better after one month of giving it?

Again - hmmmm

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Several of you comments are wrong.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

Once again - the point.

If you're honest about your own actions but have no clue clue about the interactions of those around you (which you will never know), isn't it kind of a moot point? It's literally a pointless discussion. You can do everything right and still get it.

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Of course that is true!

Now, the way I see it is you do the best you can to improve your odds as much as possible for you and the others you encounter. At least until the vaccine is more readily available and we learn more about how to battle the virus. If you care for your elderly parents or have preexisting conditions, that makes you want to be that much more careful. The people who refuse to show any responsibility whatsoever hurts the rest of us, but I can’t change that. I just try to be as responsible as possible.

I can’t live in a bubble, but I know there are things I can do to be a more responsible adult human being. As is often the case (like in general politics), the proper course is probably not one extreme or the other but more toward the middle.

I have found that most people I have encountered that argue for natural immunity versus vaccine have actually already had Covid.

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Originally Posted by xu82

Of course that is true!

Now, the way I see it is you do the best you can to improve your odds as much as possible for you and the others you encounter. At least until the vaccine is more readily available and we learn more about how to battle the virus. If you care for your elderly parents or have preexisting conditions, that makes you want to be that much more careful. The people who refuse to show any responsibility whatsoever hurts the rest of us, but I can’t change that. I just try to be as responsible as possible.

I can’t live in a bubble, but I know there are things I can do to be a more responsible adult human being. As is often the case (like in general politics), the proper course is probably not one extreme or the other but more toward the middle.

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Of course.

But he also gave things like eating at restaurants, going to the gym, and gathering indoors with friends as something that was "bad". It's perfectly fine for people to do that type of stuff intelligently.

The whole point of this conversation is your preferred appetite for risk. Everyone's is different. The point being, you're not going to change it - stop expecting others to adopt your risk profile, even your family. You have no right. None.

If you're that untrusting and fearful of people that you have to ask them questions every time you see them in order to converse with them, then just stay home. This has nothing to do with anyone else.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

Correct - realistically, as of right now, the people who have had covid are more protected with anti-bodies than the people who have received the vaccine, so...

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Really enjoyed your previous points and agree. Yes and no on your point with more protected. With natural immunity, your body makes antibodies against a variety of features of the virus. Covid vaccines out today are designed to trigger antibodies that hone in on a certain molecular target — in most cases, the coronavirus spike protein.

The spike protein is part of what makes this virus so deadly, and antibodies that recognize it seem to be particularly effective at neutralizing it. It’s possible this targeted approach will lead to a stronger immune response in people who have had the vaccine.

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Originally Posted by XU_Lou

Are you really that much of a lunatic? You're really embarrassing yourself...

"Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...g%20COVID%2D19.

"Both Pfizer and Moderna report that their vaccines show approximately 95% efficacy at preventing both mild and severe symptoms of COVID-19."

"A vaccine that is 95% effective means that about 1 out of 20 people who get it may not have protection from getting the illness."

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...u-need-to-know

"This may end up being a vaccine that's not a one-time thing or even a two-time thing, it may end up being like, one time and a booster, or it may end up being what we call either a seasonal vaccine, or vaccine that needs to be administered every couple of years," Chiu said.

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/23/a-c...s-for-society/

"People will likely need to take a coronavirus vaccine annually to protect themselves, similar to the annual flu vaccine, an Oxford University scientist working on a COVID-19 vaccine said on Sunday."

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...y-be-necessary

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I already knew all of this...the comment had nothing to do with what the vaccine does. I’m so proud of you for actuallly producing links from some reputable sources though. This is a big day for you. As a present you are allowed to eat dessert tonight!

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Originally Posted by noteggs

what makes this virus so deadly

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So is an adjective that may or may not reflect reality.

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Originally Posted by Xville

I already knew all of this...the comment had nothing to do with what the vaccine does. I’m so proud of you for actuallly producing links from some reputable sources though. This is a big day for you. As a present you are allowed to eat dessert tonight!

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strange dude....

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Originally Posted by drudy23

Of course.

But he also gave things like eating at restaurants, going to the gym, and gathering indoors with friends as something that was "bad". It's perfectly fine for people to do that type of stuff intelligently.

The whole point of this conversation is your preferred appetite for risk. Everyone's is different. The point being, you're not going to change it - stop expecting others to adopt your risk profile, even your family. You have no right. None.

If you're that untrusting and fearful of people that you have to ask them questions every time you see them in order to converse with them, then just stay home. This has nothing to do with anyone else.

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Again, I’m more toward the middle. I eat at restaurants but almost exclusively outdoors, or on semi enclosed patios. I also have lunch around 3:00pm when I’m usually the only person there. I’ve had some VERY cold lunches! I enjoy it, and I want the businesses and the staff to survive while still staying relatively safe.

I take groceries to my 93 year old mother. I don’t take unnecessary risks. I pop the truck when I arrive, wear a mask and we keep our distance outdoors for the pass off. It works for us, and seems safe enough. Nothing is perfectly safe.

The people who refuse to wear a mask in the grocery store for no reason other than arrogance and selfishness still piss me off.



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Originally Posted by noteggs

Really enjoyed your previous points and agree. Yes and no on your point with more protected. With natural immunity, your body makes antibodies against a variety of features of the virus. Covid vaccines out today are designed to trigger antibodies that hone in on a certain molecular target — in most cases, the coronavirus spike protein.

The spike protein is part of what makes this virus so deadly, and antibodies that recognize it seem to be particularly effective at neutralizing it. It’s possible this targeted approach will lead to a stronger immune response in people who have had the vaccine.

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To piggy back off this, the spike protein is how the virus enters cells, think of it like this, out of 100,000 viral particles, without antibodies to the spike protein all of those 100,000 viral particles are getting through. With antibodies to the spike protein, let's say 25,000 get through, that's the whole basis of the vaccine preventing serious infection. In the case of natural immunity vs vaccine, it's very situational. Think about chickenpox back in the day, if a kid had chickenpox, all the neighborhood kids have a fun little pox party because it's much better to have as a kid, then we developed a vaccine against it basically because why risk some potential complications of chickenpox when we can prevent it? Yes, natural immunity is preferred because as noteggs said you get antibodies to various different parts of the virus, but the end game is: why risk complications via natural immunity if you can prevent it? We know elder populations are at higher risk right? Obviously makes sense why in the rollout they're the ones targeted to receive it first. Prevent the complications.

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Originally Posted by waggy

"Some" is not definitive. And I believe polio still exists in the world. Which really should tell everyone all they need to know.

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There are, I believe, a few places left in the world. Afghanistan and remote Pakistan primarily
It's been eradicated by everyone getting a vaccine and now only a few hundred cases in the whole world.
In those two places there are a lot of anti-vaxers.

https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/NN_sample.html

I found this article and quotes by these doc's fascinating. They think our experts are making the same mistakes with the vaccine that they did in the beginning of the pandemic with the masks.

Here are some key points:

"Now a version of the mask story is repeating itself — this time involving the vaccines. Once again, the experts don’t seem to trust the public to hear the full truth." (Read to see how)

"Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”"

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

“If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!” Dr. Paul Sax of Harvard has written in The New England Journal of Medicine. (And, no, exclamation points are not common in medical journals.) On Twitter, Dr. Monica Gandhi of the University of California, San Francisco, argued: “Please be assured that YOU ARE SAFE after vaccine from what matters — disease and spreading.”

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/NN_sample.html

I found this article and quotes by these doc's fascinating. They think our experts are making the same mistakes with the vaccine that they did in the beginning of the pandemic with the masks.

Here are some key points:

"Now a version of the mask story is repeating itself — this time involving the vaccines. Once again, the experts don’t seem to trust the public to hear the full truth." (Read to see how)

"Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”"

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

“If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!”

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But it's often the same people that will also say "we don't yet know enough about the virus to make any conclusions about it" - yet the vaccine should be completely trusted after one month? If I was 80, I'm likely taking the vaccine. I'm not, so I'll wait. That's a pretty common conclusion I'm hearing from low-risk populations outside of healthcare workers.

It's not surprising that there are so many opinions on this. There has literally been a year's worth of contradictions in pretty much every aspect of this. I don't know how anyone could know who to believe. They've (whoever they is) caused this level of mistrust and hesitation.

Thanks, D-West.

I’m getting the vaccine the second I can. A 95%+ effective vaccine against this bullshit? I’m in.

I don’t care if morons decide they don’t want it because it probably means I can get it sooner. We can worry about them once the people to believe in science get vaccinated.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Thanks, D-West.

I’m getting the vaccine the second I can. A 95%+ effective vaccine against this bullshit? I’m in.

I don’t care if morons decide they don’t want it because it probably means I can get it sooner. We can worry about them once the people to believe in science get vaccinated.

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And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

Here is the summation:

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We should immediately be more aggressive about mask-wearing and social distancing because of the new virus variants. We should vaccinate people as rapidly as possible — which will require approving other Covid vaccines when the data justifies it.

People who have received both of their vaccine shots, and have waited until they take effect, will be able to do things that unvaccinated people cannot — like having meals together and hugging their grandchildren. But until the pandemic is defeated, all Americans should wear masks in public, help unvaccinated people stay safe and contribute to a shared national project of saving every possible life.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

But it's often the same people that will also say "we don't yet know enough about the virus to make any conclusions about it" - yet the vaccine should be completely trusted after one month? If I was 80, I'm likely taking the vaccine. I'm not, so I'll wait. That's a pretty common conclusion I'm hearing from low-risk populations outside of healthcare workers.

It's not surprising that there are so many opinions on this. There has literally been a year's worth of contradictions in pretty much every aspect of this. I don't know how anyone could know who to believe. They've (whoever they is) caused this level of mistrust and hesitation.

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Yeah the government or experts or whoever they are have botched this on many levels. Telling the public not to wear masks in the beginning was a massive mistake they have never fully recovered from. The CDC has looked incompetent at times. I 100% agree with you there.

It hasn't been 1 month though for the vaccines, my understanding is the first trials started last March. There were 70,000 participants in the two trials.

I always laugh when people say "but we don't know the long term side effects!". What exactly might those be? Are there other vaccines where there were no initial side effects but then a year or two later someone started having some real bad side effects? From what I understand the side effects from vaccines usually happen immediately or at least in the first 4-6 weeks. Not in a year, or 2 years, or 5 years. And the first people in the study got it 10 months ago.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

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I think I can explain this all pretty easily. I believe in science. When there is a ‘jump ball’ science wins. If medical experts are telling me something, I listen. They may not be 100% right, but they know more about medicine than I do.

Infectious disease specialists tell me to avoid eating in restaurants and socializing indoors, so I do those things. When those same medical experts tell me that a vaccine that has passed clinical trials is safe and effective, I get that vaccine.

I can’t believe I’m having to explain this.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

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Can you give me an example of what you expect we might learn negatively about the vaccine that we wouldn't already know 10 months in? What more do you need to wait for? This aspect is so confusing to me. One idiot anti-vaxxer says something about infertility that is total BS and now you hear so many people who aren't taking it because they are afraid it will make them infertile, which has no basis in reality. That is how strong the anti-vaxx movement is, one made up statement causes thousands to second guess and say no.

I have 2 pregnant colleagues who got theirs. Their pediatricians and OB/GYNs all strongly encouraged it. They also know the risks to the mother and baby are much greater from COVID than any side effect from the vaccine.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

I think I can explain this all pretty easily. I believe in science. When there is a ‘jump ball’ science wins. If medical experts are telling me something, I listen. They may not be 100% right, but they know more about medicine than I do.

Infectious disease specialists tell me to avoid eating in restaurants and socializing indoors, so I do those things. When those same medical experts tell me that a vaccine that has passed clinical trials is safe and effective, I get that vaccine.

I can’t believe I’m having to explain this.

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You don't have to explain anything - I understand fine.

But you don't seem to accept that others have a different risk profile where other factors may cause them to delay these decisions or not do them at all. And you most definitely seem to have issue with that as evidenced by your snide name calling of those who don't run from their doctor's office to their basement or the Little Clinic to get their vaccine.

I can't believe I'm having to explain that.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Thanks, D-West.

I’m getting the vaccine the second I can. A 95%+ effective vaccine against this bullshit? I’m in.

I don’t care if morons decide they don’t want it because it probably means I can get it sooner. We can worry about them once the people to believe in science get vaccinated.

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I will also get it as soon as I can, which probably won’t be any time too soon. We’ve read my 93 year old mother can name two people as caregivers which would move us up on the list. We take her groceries and to her doctors appointments, etc. Nothing “fun”, but stuff that needs doing.

We have a bunch of family that has gotten the first, and sometimes the second shot already. My wife’s family is full of doctors and they get to the head of the line. No significant side affects to date. I’m not afraid of the shot, but I also don’t believe any info as to how long it helps. Too many unknowns at this point, but a balanced view to me is it’s better to get it when you can and hope for our understanding to grow.

Do you mask wearers use tongue condoms?

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

Can you give me an example of what you expect we might learn negatively about the vaccine that we wouldn't already know 10 months in? What more do you need to wait for? This aspect is so confusing to me. One idiot anti-vaxxer says something about infertility that is total BS and now you hear so many people who aren't taking it because they are afraid it will make them infertile, which has no basis in reality. That is how strong the anti-vaxx movement is, one made up statement causes thousands to second guess and say no.

I have 2 pregnant colleagues who got theirs. Their pediatricians and OB/GYNs all strongly encouraged it. They also know the risks to the mother and baby are much greater from COVID than any side effect from the vaccine.

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I can make the same argument for the virus. Do you not believe the stats that this virus is relatively harmless and rarely deadly for certain age groups? Or is that part of "what they don't know yet". You'd have to agree that common sense says that the least at risk aren't going to pay much attention to the rules. There's a reason 15 year olds don't get colonoscopies unless something calls for it.

Again, I don't disagree with your decisions, I'm questioning your consistency. You literally argue a point in one response, and then refuse to acknowledge a point like the one I just made.

I have no clue why you're lumping this common sense approach into an anti-vaxx argument.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I can make the same argument for the virus. Do you not believe the stats that this virus is relatively harmless and rarely deadly for certain age groups? Or is that part of "what they don't know yet". You'd have to agree that common sense says that the least at risk aren't going to pay much attention to the rules. There's a reason 15 year olds don't get colonoscopies unless something calls for it.

Again, I don't disagree with your decisions, I'm questioning your consistency. You literally argue a point in one response, and then refuse to acknowledge a point like the one I just made.

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1. A common misconception by those who try and downplay COVID is that the only two results are perfectly fine or dead. Even younger people who didn't have a bad course are having some other issues pop up after recovery. Or pulmonary issues that persist. I have seen this from some of our therapists who have got it and recovered.

2. I'm not sure what I am being inconsistent with or what point I ignored of yours.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

1. A common misconception by those who try and downplay COVID is that the only two results are perfectly fine or dead. Even younger people who didn't have a bad course are having some other issues pop up after recovery. Or pulmonary issues that persist. I have seen this from some of our therapists who have got it and recovered.

2. I'm not sure what I am being inconsistent with or what point I ignored of yours.

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So a 95% effective vaccine is good enough - yet the stats that show literally this virus is 99.95% non-deadly in younger populations is a "common misconception".

And then you ask where you're being inconsistent LOL

You're not very good at this.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

So a 95% effective vaccine is good enough - yet the stats that show literally this virus is 99.95% non-deadly in younger populations is a "common misconception".

And then you ask where you're being inconsistent LOL

You're not very good at this.

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For the n'teenth time you completely ignored my point and twisted it into something you wanted to argue instead of addressing my point. :facepalm:

This is pointless.

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Originally Posted by xu82

I just realized this is my 10,000th post

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You get to join Go's club!

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

You get to join Go's club!

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I think it’s just proof that I have WAY too much time on my hands!

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Originally Posted by xu82

So, you have a problem with people who wear masks?

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No, not at all.

But you obviously have a problem with people who don't.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I can make the same argument for the virus. Do you not believe the stats that this virus is relatively harmless and rarely deadly for certain age groups? Or is that part of "what they don't know yet". You'd have to agree that common sense says that the least at risk aren't going to pay much attention to the rules. There's a reason 15 year olds don't get colonoscopies unless something calls for it.

Again, I don't disagree with your decisions, I'm questioning your consistency. You literally argue a point in one response, and then refuse to acknowledge a point like the one I just made.

I have no clue why you're lumping this common sense approach into an anti-vaxx argument.

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You are equating the disease with the vaccine, and they are two separate entities. There are several viral infections that cause all sorts of problems including death. There is a reason we don’t want to catch or spread this disease. On the other hand there aren’t any current vaccines that cause death or really any long term issues. That’s why it seems as if it is turning into an anti-vaccine issue, it’s apples and oranges. The disease is not that much older than the vaccine, and the technology for the vaccine has been around way longer.

The quicker we have widespread vaccination, the quicker this goes away. IMO the result of the vaccine development could not have been better. We have a safe and effective vaccine less than a year of the first confirmed case in our nation. The distribution has been less than ideal but the development is unprecedented and the refusal to accept this as safe is going to draw out the disease into next year when it can be gone in half that time.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

You are equating the disease with the vaccine, and they are two separate entities. There are several viral infections that cause all sorts of problems including death. There is a reason we don’t want to catch or spread this disease. On the other hand there aren’t any current vaccines that cause death or really any long term issues. That’s why it seems as if it is turning into an anti-vaccine issue, it’s apples and oranges. The disease is not that much older than the vaccine, and the technology for the vaccine has been around way longer.

The quicker we have widespread vaccination, the quicker this goes away. IMO the result of the vaccine development could not have been better. We have a safe and effective vaccine less than a year of the first confirmed case in our nation. The distribution has been less than ideal but the development is unprecedented and the refusal to accept this as safe is going to draw out the disease into next year when it can be gone in half that time.

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I have no issues taking the vaccine - just waiting a little bit. I have no issues with vaccines in general.

I also have no issues with the way booze is treating this situation. He's free to live his life however he wants.

But so am I and everyone else.

Also goes back to the politics thread - just do you. Stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing - that's an exhausting existence - for you and others.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I have no issues taking the vaccine - just waiting a little bit. I have no issues with vaccines in general.

I also have no issues with the way booze is treating this situation. He's free to live his life however he wants.

But so am I and everyone else.

Also goes back to the politics thread - just do you. Stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing - that's an exhausting existence - for you and others.

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While I agree to an extent, if there are a large majority of people that feel the way that you do regarding the vaccine, that delays the country “ getting back to normal.” I’m all for the you do thing, but when it affects me and my selfishness :) I have an issue with it. Though, if you aren’t over a certain age, in Florida, or in health care/teaching we are going to be waiting for a while anyways.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

You are equating the disease with the vaccine, and they are two separate entities. There are several viral infections that cause all sorts of problems including death. There is a reason we don’t want to catch or spread this disease. On the other hand there aren’t any current vaccines that cause death or really any long term issues. That’s why it seems as if it is turning into an anti-vaccine issue, it’s apples and oranges. The disease is not that much older than the vaccine, and the technology for the vaccine has been around way longer.

The quicker we have widespread vaccination, the quicker this goes away. IMO the result of the vaccine development could not have been better. We have a safe and effective vaccine less than a year of the first confirmed case in our nation. The distribution has been less than ideal but the development is unprecedented and the refusal to accept this as safe is going to draw out the disease into next year when it can be gone in half that time.

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Great post, public reps.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

I have no issues taking the vaccine - just waiting a little bit. I have no issues with vaccines in general.

I also have no issues with the way booze is treating this situation. He's free to live his life however he wants.

But so am I and everyone else.

Also goes back to the politics thread - just do you. Stop worrying so much about what everyone else is doing - that's an exhausting existence - for you and others.

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I get what you are saying, but I also think that in a society you don't always get to 'just do you'. We are all inter-related. In this specific example if we all (or almost all) get a 90%+ effective vaccine we can potentially eradicate this thing. That only really works if we call get the vaccine though.

Just do you works in some (probably many) instances, but not all. I also think it's often used in instances where people aren't willing to inconvenience themselves for the benefit of others, but don't necessarily want to say that.

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Originally Posted by Xville

While I agree to an extent, if there are a large majority of people that feel the way that you do regarding the vaccine, that delays the country “ getting back to normal.” I’m all for the you do thing, but when it affects me and my selfishness :) I have an issue with it. Though, if you aren’t over a certain age, in Florida, or in health care/teaching we are going to be waiting for a while anyways.

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This too shall pass - hopefully this time next year it's all a memory.

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Originally Posted by Xville

While I agree to an extent, if there are a large majority of people that feel the way that you do regarding the vaccine, that delays the country “ getting back to normal.” I’m all for the you do thing, but when it affects me and my selfishness :) I have an issue with it. Though, if you aren’t over a certain age, in Florida, or in health care/teaching we are going to be waiting for a while anyways.

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Yeah exactly.

It has been disheartening to see the number of employees in the nursing homes refuse the vaccine. It does not give me great hope for when this hits the general population. And so many of the reasons to not take it right now revolve around things the anti-vaxx movement puts out there. Lies, what-if's, all sorts of BS that has no basis in reality but all it takes is for it to spread on social media and you have people who otherwise would have got it deciding not to or to wait.

Luckily there has been some good news, at least in the nursing homes I know of, where the pharmacies have come out to give the second dose but will also give the first to anyone who changed their minds, and we have seen an uptick in people who originally said no and have now decided to get it. I think seeing co-workers get it and then get the second and having no issues has put confidence into some of those who said no originally.

Wondering for the wait and see crowd if there is a time period they have in mind for when has been long enough to give them confidence? The more people who get this, the faster we can put this shit behind us, at least to the extent that it has been dominating our world right now.

I do have hope by the time this hits the general population people will have confidence after seeing healthcare workers and elderly get the vaccine and have no issues.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

Yeah exactly.

It has been disheartening to see the number of employees in the nursing homes refuse the vaccine. It does not give me great hope for when this hits the general population. And so many of the reasons to not take it right now revolve around things the anti-vaxx movement puts out there. Lies, what-if's, all sorts of BS that has no basis in reality but all it takes is for it to spread on social media and you have people who otherwise would have got it deciding not to or to wait.

Luckily there has been some good news, at least in the nursing homes I know of, where the pharmacies have come out to give the second dose but will also give the first to anyone who changed their minds, and we have seen an uptick in people who originally said no and have now decided to get it. I think seeing co-workers get it and then get the second and having no issues has put confidence into some of those who said no originally.

Wondering for the wait and see crowd if there is a time period they have in mind for when has been long enough to give them confidence? The more people who get this, the faster we can put this shit behind us, at least to the extent that it has been dominating our world right now.

I do have hope by the time this hits the general population people will have confidence after seeing healthcare workers and elderly get the vaccine and have no issues.

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But I don't think these are anti-vaxx type of people.

The hesitation is more a trust issue than anything else. There's literally been nowhere to turn for consistent answers through this. Can you really blame the general public? So many people think "the man" is screwing them, and in alot of ways, they're right.

Hopefully the transition to less of a shit show will help.

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Originally Posted by drudy23

But I don't think these are anti-vaxx type of people.

The hesitation is more a trust issue than anything else. There's literally been nowhere to turn for consistent answers through this. Can you really blame the general public? So many people think "the man" is screwing them, and in alot of ways, they're right.

Hopefully the transition to less of a shit show will help.

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Yeah that was my point, I dont think most of the people are anti-vaxx people. The anti-vaxx leaders and movement though can put out all sorts of BS out there and it can have an effect on people who aren't anti-vaxx and who otherwise would get the vaccine.

I also think our government, and the vaccine companies have done a horrific job at educating the public about the vaccine, the trials, the research, how safe it is, etc. I think they wrongly thought the overwhelming majority of people would be ecstatic about the vaccine and jump all over it.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

I also think our government, and the vaccine companies have done a horrific job at educating the public about the vaccine, the trials, the research, how safe it is, etc. I think they wrongly thought the overwhelming majority of people would be ecstatic about the vaccine and jump all over it.

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Yes lack of educating is a problem. Unfortunately our politicians from both sides really screwed up the messaging on this one which is probably the bigger issue overall. Democrats with you can’t trust Trump and Trump with the whole warp speed thing (obviously a huge negative message to some).

You had Fauci saying getting a vaccine out before end of year is highly unlikely. Yes drug companies could’ve done better, but they have been demonized as money grubbing capitalists for decades. Not sure many people would’ve listened to those so called villains.

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Originally Posted by noteggs

Yes lack of educating is a problem. Unfortunately our politicians from both sides really screwed up the messaging on this one which is probably the bigger issue overall. Democrats with you can’t trust Trump and Trump with the whole warp speed thing (obviously a huge negative message to some).

You had Fauci saying getting a vaccine out before end of year is highly unlikely. Yes drug companies could’ve done better, but they have been demonized as money grubbing capitalists for decades. Not sure many people would’ve listened to those so called villains.

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Yeah I dont even know how much responsibiliy would be on the vaccine companies to educate. Not sure if that is a typical expecation on them.

But yes the government, CDC, politicians, etc have massively failed.

Yes the name operation warp speed was dumb imo. Yes any dem who said they wouldn't get or trust a "trump vaccine" was terribly irresponsible. Yes Fauci trying to predict we wouldn't have a vaccine in 2020 and being wrong about that was a failure.

I can't for the life of me understand why there hasn't been a mass marketing campaign educating the public about this vaccine. I have been saying this for months.