Covid-19

[paulxu]

"Some" is not definitive. And I believe polio still exists in the world. Which really should tell everyone all they need to know.

There are, I believe, a few places left in the world. Afghanistan and remote Pakistan primarily
It's been eradicated by everyone getting a vaccine and now only a few hundred cases in the whole world.
In those two places there are a lot of anti-vaxers.

[D-West & PO-Z]

https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/NN_sample.html

I found this article and quotes by these doc's fascinating. They think our experts are making the same mistakes with the vaccine that they did in the beginning of the pandemic with the masks.

Here are some key points:

"Now a version of the mask story is repeating itself — this time involving the vaccines. Once again, the experts don’t seem to trust the public to hear the full truth." (Read to see how)

"Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”"

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

“If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!” Dr. Paul Sax of Harvard has written in The New England Journal of Medicine. (And, no, exclamation points are not common in medical journals.) On Twitter, Dr. Monica Gandhi of the University of California, San Francisco, argued: “Please be assured that YOU ARE SAFE after vaccine from what matters — disease and spreading.”

[drudy23]

https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/NN_sample.html

I found this article and quotes by these doc's fascinating. They think our experts are making the same mistakes with the vaccine that they did in the beginning of the pandemic with the masks.

Here are some key points:

"Now a version of the mask story is repeating itself — this time involving the vaccines. Once again, the experts don’t seem to trust the public to hear the full truth." (Read to see how)

"Right now, public discussion of the vaccines is full of warnings about their limitations: They’re not 100 percent effective. Even vaccinated people may be able to spread the virus. And people shouldn’t change their behavior once they get their shots.

These warnings have a basis in truth, just as it’s true that masks are imperfect. But the sum total of the warnings is misleading, as I heard from multiple doctors and epidemiologists last week.

“It’s driving me a little bit crazy,” Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health, told me.

“We’re underselling the vaccine,” Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious-disease specialist at the University of Pennsylvania, said.

“It’s going to save your life — that’s where the emphasis has to be right now,” Dr. Peter Hotez of the Baylor College of Medicine said.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are “essentially 100 percent effective against serious disease,” Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, said. “It’s ridiculously encouraging.”"

"If anything, the 95 percent number understates the effectiveness, because it counts anyone who came down with a mild case of Covid-19 as a failure. But turning Covid into a typical flu — as the vaccines evidently did for most of the remaining 5 percent — is actually a success. Of the 32,000 people who received the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine in a research trial, do you want to guess how many contracted a severe Covid case? One."

“If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!”

But it's often the same people that will also say "we don't yet know enough about the virus to make any conclusions about it" - yet the vaccine should be completely trusted after one month? If I was 80, I'm likely taking the vaccine. I'm not, so I'll wait. That's a pretty common conclusion I'm hearing from low-risk populations outside of healthcare workers.

It's not surprising that there are so many opinions on this. There has literally been a year's worth of contradictions in pretty much every aspect of this. I don't know how anyone could know who to believe. They've (whoever they is) caused this level of mistrust and hesitation.

[boozehound]

Thanks, D-West.

I’m getting the vaccine the second I can. A 95%+ effective vaccine against this bullshit? I’m in.

I don’t care if morons decide they don’t want it because it probably means I can get it sooner. We can worry about them once the people to believe in science get vaccinated.

[drudy23]

Thanks, D-West.

I’m getting the vaccine the second I can. A 95%+ effective vaccine against this bullshit? I’m in.

I don’t care if morons decide they don’t want it because it probably means I can get it sooner. We can worry about them once the people to believe in science get vaccinated.

And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

[waggy]

Here is the summation:

We should immediately be more aggressive about mask-wearing and social distancing because of the new virus variants. We should vaccinate people as rapidly as possible — which will require approving other Covid vaccines when the data justifies it.

People who have received both of their vaccine shots, and have waited until they take effect, will be able to do things that unvaccinated people cannot — like having meals together and hugging their grandchildren. But until the pandemic is defeated, all Americans should wear masks in public, help unvaccinated people stay safe and contribute to a shared national project of saving every possible life.

[D-West & PO-Z]

But it's often the same people that will also say "we don't yet know enough about the virus to make any conclusions about it" - yet the vaccine should be completely trusted after one month? If I was 80, I'm likely taking the vaccine. I'm not, so I'll wait. That's a pretty common conclusion I'm hearing from low-risk populations outside of healthcare workers.

It's not surprising that there are so many opinions on this. There has literally been a year's worth of contradictions in pretty much every aspect of this. I don't know how anyone could know who to believe. They've (whoever they is) caused this level of mistrust and hesitation.

Yeah the government or experts or whoever they are have botched this on many levels. Telling the public not to wear masks in the beginning was a massive mistake they have never fully recovered from. The CDC has looked incompetent at times. I 100% agree with you there.

It hasn't been 1 month though for the vaccines, my understanding is the first trials started last March. There were 70,000 participants in the two trials.

I always laugh when people say "but we don't know the long term side effects!". What exactly might those be? Are there other vaccines where there were no initial side effects but then a year or two later someone started having some real bad side effects? From what I understand the side effects from vaccines usually happen immediately or at least in the first 4-6 weeks. Not in a year, or 2 years, or 5 years. And the first people in the study got it 10 months ago.

[boozehound]

And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

I think I can explain this all pretty easily. I believe in science. When there is a ‘jump ball’ science wins. If medical experts are telling me something, I listen. They may not be 100% right, but they know more about medicine than I do.

Infectious disease specialists tell me to avoid eating in restaurants and socializing indoors, so I do those things. When those same medical experts tell me that a vaccine that has passed clinical trials is safe and effective, I get that vaccine.

I can’t believe I’m having to explain this.

[D-West & PO-Z]

And you wonder why the reaction - these aren't anti-vaccers. They just want to give it a little more time to be sure. There is nothing wrong with that - certainly not moronic.

This is coming from someone that readily admits they take way more pre-cautions to not get the virus, but doesn't have that same conservative behavior when it comes to taking the vaccine? People are giving you hell not because of what you believe, but because you're all over the damn place.

Cowher in fear at the thought of a meal in a restaurant, yet you're first in line to get a brand new vaccine? Pick one will ya. With your bouncing ball of emotion, you might want to resist calling other people morons.

Can you give me an example of what you expect we might learn negatively about the vaccine that we wouldn't already know 10 months in? What more do you need to wait for? This aspect is so confusing to me. One idiot anti-vaxxer says something about infertility that is total BS and now you hear so many people who aren't taking it because they are afraid it will make them infertile, which has no basis in reality. That is how strong the anti-vaxx movement is, one made up statement causes thousands to second guess and say no.

I have 2 pregnant colleagues who got theirs. Their pediatricians and OB/GYNs all strongly encouraged it. They also know the risks to the mother and baby are much greater from COVID than any side effect from the vaccine.

[drudy23]

I think I can explain this all pretty easily. I believe in science. When there is a ‘jump ball’ science wins. If medical experts are telling me something, I listen. They may not be 100% right, but they know more about medicine than I do.

Infectious disease specialists tell me to avoid eating in restaurants and socializing indoors, so I do those things. When those same medical experts tell me that a vaccine that has passed clinical trials is safe and effective, I get that vaccine.

I can’t believe I’m having to explain this.

You don't have to explain anything - I understand fine.

But you don't seem to accept that others have a different risk profile where other factors may cause them to delay these decisions or not do them at all. And you most definitely seem to have issue with that as evidenced by your snide name calling of those who don't run from their doctor's office to their basement or the Little Clinic to get their vaccine.

I can't believe I'm having to explain that.