1 review vs 14, try to keep up. read 'em.
Ohio paid 2.6 million for HCQ tablets they just donated two weeks ago. Nobody wanted them. i'm sure you can get some free for the kids.
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1 review vs 14, try to keep up. read 'em.
Ohio paid 2.6 million for HCQ tablets they just donated two weeks ago. Nobody wanted them. i'm sure you can get some free for the kids.
Ah yes, peer reviews. A way to give a failed hypothesis the shielding veil of consensus.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Don’t need them and neither do most thanks to the availability of Trump’s vaccines. May have been useful a year ago.
Don't need 'em? Kinda blows up the your previous arguments. If they didn't work and nobody wanted them, why did we waste millions of taxpayer dollars on them. Another trump fiasco.
My arguments were about personal choice vs mandates. The efficacy on previously infected individuals. The vaccines are recommended but not ineffective. Cloth masks are neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
yeah, ok
Huh, nobody wanted them. Weird that is the case after you TDS freaks made it your sole purpose of being to poo-poo the drug that could have saved lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Maybe Fauci should have been honest about it’s effectiveness like he was in his February 2020 email, where he recommended HCQ. Yes. Accountability.
Not to get caught up too much in pissing matches but to be fair, I was optimistic on HCQ early on too as documented in this thread. It was based on the early European study’s data that showed possible benefit. As the only study available it was exciting to find something that could help. There are several more recent studies that show no benefit or possible benefit. It is most likely not a game changer or the evidence would be robust by now, and it is not. Further it’s not like we are searching for game changers at this time in the treatment phase of things. Monoclonal antibody treatments are game changers in the outpatient treatment phase and are far more effective than any other medication or antiviral will be. 70% reduction in hospitalizations in high risk patients! There are other promising outpatient treatments going through clinical trials but hopefully we won’t need them for awhile if at all ever.
So to say Fauci is not accountable because he recommended HCQ in February of 2020 (!!) and changed his tune as better treatments come out is a bit harsh. Treatments evolve as does knowledge of this whole thing.
Absolutely! You learn, you adapt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
But some can’t help themselves if it helps support their narrative. They care too much about proving their point and being “right’ than finding the truth.
Some also like to smugly appear to be above it all....Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Nope, I just never pretended to have all the answers. The fact is, the info changes, the plan changes. I know I don’t know! I’m trying to play it down the middle until we actually know enough to have firm positions. I don’t have a narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Didn't work....Maybe we can donate them back to India or maybe trump can buy them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Saw today that 70% of those over 18 in Seattle have been fully vaccinated. Was there this past week. Three times I got told to put my mask on. Twice when I stood up at my table to go to the bathroom. Saw a student driver on the road and both her and her instructor were double masked and wearing gloves. Numerous people wearing masks while driving alone on the highway. It's way different out there.
I'm going to Portland for a couple of days next week. Coming from Wichita, I'm expecting to have a bit of Covid culture shock. Luckily we'll be spending most of our time outside.
I just met with a vendor who lives in Bend, OR and she said it is still really tight out there. She's visiting clients in Cincy and NKY this week and was surprised to see how maskless we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
I’m shocked that here in Colorado things are pretty wide open. I give the democratic governor a lot of credit especially as you see these
Other states continue to use Covid as a political tool. And shocked people are allowing it.
Prediction time.
First, cases in FL, TX and other southern states are about to increase. Hopefully not much due to the vax and natural immunity, but they will go up. Why? Science. See Edgar Hope-Simpson model of seasonality.
Prediction number 2: The media will blame this on variants with scary sounding names. They will blame it on relaxed policy. They will blame it on those terrible governors "DeathSantis" and Abbott. All bullshit.
It's just seasonality. Just watch.
Do you suppose if we got everyone vaccinated that we could eradicate it like polio or smallpox?
Yes, but I also believe in reality. And before you go there, I also believe government trying to force vaccination is worse than 100 COVID-19 pandemics.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
I need to come back to this one. What is the obsessive push to vaccinate kids? They are affected by COVID less than by the flu. Explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
No obsession. My older grandkids got it the 1st week it was available in GA. Now protected against the virus. Didn't bother them a bit. They were going to a camp that required it. Nobody got sick.
I think it’s about time for the NFL and the NFLPA to sit down and have some fresh discussions. They came to an agreement a while back that seems overly restrictive and even punitive to players who have not been vaccinated. That might have made sense when it was agreed upon, but it seems the climate has shifted some. When the times change, the rules need to change.
If you can bring 70k fans into a stadium with no consideration as to who has been vaccinated, why should the players be held to a higher standard?
.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-sho...231300876.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Can you understand why some parents don't want to get their kids vaccinated?
Some people didn’t read the entire article?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smails
But despite the risks of the condition, a new CDC report estimates the vaccines could prevent 5,700 COVID-19 cases and as many as 215 hospitalizations among boys aged 12-17, noting that the benefits of vaccinating that age group "still clearly outweigh the risks."
"This experience was much better than getting COVID and much lower risk of anything long lasting occurring," Noah Hiers said.
Or he read the article and doesn’t care about Noah Hiers’ opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
The WHO disagrees, for what it's worth. They say no vaccines for minors.
I'm not sure I really buy much of what either of them are selling, though. My minor children will get vaccinated when they tell me they want to get vaccinated or when their school tells them they aren't welcome unless vaccinated (very unlikely).
The WHO is worth about the average opinion on this board at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
I'm in the same boat with you and it's highly unlikely my kid's school will make it a requirement.
For the record, I don’t pretend to know or have a firm position one way or another. To each their own. We went along and got our shots. Our adult son decided to do the same. His wife did not. Whatever.
When politics decided walk firmly into the room, medical profession’s integrity has taken a huge hit.
Yup. I said from the beginning this was a chance to get a big win for the medical profession, and it was just completely botched, mainly due to politics. I firmly believe that 90% of healthcare professionals are doing what's right, and trying to keep the general population's best interest at hand, however this has just become a major mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs
It's interesting, because I think that this should be a big win for the medical profession. We developed a remarkably effective vaccine within the first year of the initial outbreak. It's 90%+ effective, and safe. Sure, we lucked out to some extent that the work had already been started during the SARS outbreak a while back, but it's still an impressive feat, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by GIMMFD
There were some communication and messaging missteps initially (i.e. masks don't work) that I think had as much to do with our lack of understanding of the virus as any type of willful attempt to mislead people. We significantly improved our treatment protocol for infected people as well.
I really wonder what would have happened if the Trump administration had just backed the CDC guidance and stayed out of opining on masks, treatments, etc. Or just said nothing at all about treatments and other medical issues.
Take the whole HCQ thing for example. Nobody knew what HCQ was. We initially heard it was being used to treat some COVID patients, but I don't think anyone had much of an opinion initially. The Trump started touting it. His supporters treated it like a miracle cure and started trying to buy it up like crazy. His substantial group of haters (including much of the media) then had an equally strong negative opinion.
Honestly I think that the whole thing is just a function of how broken we are as a society, and how the internet is destroying us. This could/should have been a galvanizing moment for the United Stated, and a point of overall pride. Instead it's basically been the opposite.
Is that your answer to my question? Are you able to see and understand why some people are apprehensive about getting their kids vaccinated, or is it a black and white issue with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
I have much younger kids so if it comes time where there is a vaccine for them, then I will be making the decision for them. Maybe I am naive and will think differently by the time they are teenagers but right now I think 12-17 year olds (at least in the 14-17 range) should probably be making their own decisions on this anyway. I think the job of the parent should be more about educating them on the pros/cons etc, and outlining the risks and potential consequences of the decision.
As far as the apprehension, I can certainly understand because you just never know, but I'd also have apprehension about my hypothetical 12 year old not getting vaccinated and the chance of getting a bad reaction to covid, which is probably about the same chance as having this kind of reaction from the shot.
Just my two cents.
I agree with this. I do think that statistically the chances of a bad reaction to COVID are actually probably significantly greater than the chance of a bad reaction to the vaccine. If that doesn't hold true for any age group then I can't imagine it getting through clinical trials and getting approved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
My opinion is that people who are anti-vax for their kids tend to weigh one side of the scale disproportionately to the data. They are worried about potential adverse effects to the vaccine (a totally normal thing for a parent) but are dismissive of the potential for adverse effects of getting COVID for whatever reason. While children having a severe or long lasting case of COVID is rare, it does happen, and in the age cohorts that have tested the vaccine it happens more than a significant adverse reaction to the vaccine.
There is also the very real possibility that this rapidly spreading (globally, at present) virus undergoes a mutation that makes it significantly more virulent to younger children.
My kids are 5 and 7. If the vaccine passes clinical trials for their age I would probably get them vaccinated. A more palatable (to me) solution would be getting 90% of the eligible adults and teens vaccinated, hopefully eliminating or reducing the need for vaccinations for young children.
I TOTALLY understand why it’s such a gray area. Nothing black and white about it. You can find info to seemingly support either side. Everybody has to make their own call. We went with what we thought were the best odds, but there is no perfect option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smails
Agree with you both and don’t really see a big difference in these two comments. You rightly pointed towards a positive in which there have been several. First and foremost, front line workers have been amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Despite these great accomplishments, we’ve allowed politics to overshadow them and even tarnish the medical profession. Hate to speak for GIMMFD, but think that’s the point here.
A couple more examples on top of the Trump’s mismanagement and Fauci’s mask blunder which stays with us today.
- Future VP stating she would not take a vaccine because of Trump’s involvement. We lost a big chunk of the black community on getting them vaccinated.
- Allow Cuomo to blame the CDC for his own decision to return nursing home patients which was the contrary.
- Have the two of the most prestigious medical journals in the world print a complete bogus study as peered reviewed.
- Allow the teachers union to be in the discussions with the CDC on opening schools.
Unfortunately, I could go on and on and describe the ridiculousness from the right. Just reread this thread if you want a refresher lol.
How did Trump mismanage the situation based on what is now known?Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs
Here's what happens when political science muddles natural science:Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs
February 2020: "This virus is not very dangerous except to the the sick/elderly"
March 2020: "We're all going to die! Stay home, shut down public places, stop seeing friends and family!"
June 2020: "This virus is not very dangerous for most people. Only the sick/elderly. But we need to keep things shut down and stay away from friends and family."
June 2021: "OK, as you were. Did we need to lockdown? Nothing to see here. Move along. Hey, how about those variants?"
February 2020: "Masks do not stop an airborne respiratory virus, and COVID-19 is airborne"
May 2020: "COVID-19 spready by droplets. We need to wear masks. If 80% of the population masks, it will be done".
September 2020: "COVID-19 spreads by aerosols, but masks will stop it"
April 2021: "We need to wear masks for another year"
June 2021: "Masks do not stop an airborne respiratory virus, and COVID-19 is airborne"
February 2020: "Asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 is inconsequential to the pandemic".
March 2020: "Cases are spreading asymptomatically. People don't realize they have it and can infect hundreds"
June 2021: "Asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 is inconsequential to the pandemic".
April 2020: "Once one has had COVID-19, they are immune, likely for years"
January 2021: "Everyone needs a vaccine, even if they had COVID-19. We don't know enough about natural immunity."
June 2021: "Yeah, OK, but get vaccinated anyway. Just because, now stop asking, or I'll fine you $500"
TBD...
February 2020: "The virus is not dangerous to children."
August 2020: "Not only is the virus not dangerous to children, but they have a low rate of transmitting it."
June 2021: "All children must be vaccinated! Because I said!"
TBD....
Natural science always wins out, because it's true. It just takes time.
Too bad the "former guy", unlike scientists, can't take in new information and modify his take on the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
When I think of Trump’s mismanagement of covid, it was mostly his messaging to the country. Not “from what we know now” tactical perspective which I thought was good at times. Both sides love to play the hindsight rule really well after situations like this in terms of tactical performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Here are a few of messaging errors IMO.
- His press conferences were way too long and he completely lost his overall message because they turned into the normal him vs the press slap fest. Did the press poke the bear- sure. I did not mind the banter before the pandemic but should have pulled a Biden and tell the press he was going to get in trouble if he didn’t leave the presser.
- Unfortunately Trump always thought he was the smartest guy in the room. He did not allow (to his detriment) the medical professionals explain the situation without his input. It would have been more reputable if he just said, “you heard what I heard and this is what I’m planning to do with this information.”
- If Trump knew it was airborne disease, he should’ve let us know.
- Continuing to tell Americans the disease is going away soon. I get he was trying to be optimistic for the people, but…
- In March 2020 “anyone needing a test can get a test.” We all know testing was a huge issue at this point and not universally available.
I think there is a decent chance Trump would still be President if he had let the healthcare professionals handle most of the COVID response, and had just stayed out of it. It was the quintessential example of Trump being his own worst enemy. I don't think he did himself any favors by transforming mask wearing into political theater, and opining publicly about all manner of experimental treatments. He could have kept the message about America needing to re-open and the 'cure' being potentially worse than the disease if he had just (publicly, at least) deferred more to the healthcare professionals and showed some empathy. That's a big 'if' obviously, as it seems to go against the core of who he is (particularly the part about empathy).Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs