Covid-19

[paulxu]

I have not followed Australia closely. I knew about the "cup of coffee" because a poster in this thread posted it.
I have tried to read up on Australia's response. It appears they went into a number of lockdowns, which are now being relaxed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/a...kdown-rcna3150

It also seems that each territory has some flexibility on how they address their particular challenges from the virus.
The Northern Territory, which so far has no deaths from Covid, has mandated that many workers in various industries must be vaccinated to continue employment. The $3700 (USD) fine is confusing to me. I don't know if it applies if you don't get vaccinated, or just try to show up to work unvaccinated.
I think that's not something I would favor, although mandating it has driven vaccines to be secured at an increasing rate.
Reminds me of our health care premium increases if you are a smoker, or (before the ACA) having higher rates for pre-existing conditions.

Current Australia rules as posted on their government website:

While a mask can be used as an extra precaution, you must continue to:

stay at home if unwell
maintain physical distance (more than 1.5m) from other people, when out
avoid large gatherings and crowded indoor spaces
practise hand and respiratory hygiene

Seems reasonable as business, etc open with limited capacity.
Maybe some of their efforts appear draconian to us. And maybe they are.
But we have children vaccinated to get into school, so why we are so divided on this vaccine effort, which appears to work well, just baffles me.
The absolute bottom line are people's lives.
Maybe we couldn't have done Australia's 6K deaths per 100,000...but we could have done a whole hell of lot better if people just got vaccinated.
At 221K deaths per 100,000, we've racked up 700,000 dead American.
Yes, I would support Australia's approach if we could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. It's a public health emergency, and we should all do what we can do to get us through.

[xu82]

I have not followed Australia closely. I knew about the "cup of coffee" because a poster in this thread posted it.
I have tried to read up on Australia's response. It appears they went into a number of lockdowns, which are now being relaxed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/a...kdown-rcna3150

It also seems that each territory has some flexibility on how they address their particular challenges from the virus.
The Northern Territory, which so far has no deaths from Covid, has mandated that many workers in various industries must be vaccinated to continue employment. The $3700 (USD) fine is confusing to me. I don't know if it applies if you don't get vaccinated, or just try to show up to work unvaccinated.
I think that's not something I would favor, although mandating it has driven vaccines to be secured at an increasing rate.
Reminds me of our health care premium increases if you are a smoker, or (before the ACA) having higher rates for pre-existing conditions.

Current Australia rules as posted on their government website:



Seems reasonable as business, etc open with limited capacity.
Maybe some of their efforts appear draconian to us. And maybe they are.
But we have children vaccinated to get into school, so why we are so divided on this vaccine effort, which appears to work well, just baffles me.
The absolute bottom line are people's lives.
Maybe we couldn't have done Australia's 6K deaths per 100,000...but we could have done a whole hell of lot better if people just got vaccinated.
At 221K deaths per 100,000, we've racked up 700,000 dead American.
Yes, I would support Australia's approach if we could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. It's a public health emergency, and we should all do what we can do to get us through.

Paul, I’ve never been to Australia, but my DIL has. I’ll share the first thing that comes to MY mind regarding travel to Australia. First, let me tell you it’s a VERY LONG FLIGHT. Roughly about as long as it took for the Mayflower to arrive here, I think. The DIL was going for some outback thing and flying by herself. The guy in the seat next to her DIED in the middle of the flight, with nowhere to land. The flight was full, and the overhead compartments were full. Very few options on a commercial flight. THE END.


PS - this was well before COVID.

[GoMuskies]

Why did I laugh at that story? I must be a bad person!

[xu82]

Why did I laugh at that story? I must be a bad person!

To be fair, THAT is not why you are a bad person. It’s just an indicator!

To hear her tell it is HYSTERICAL!

[GoMuskies]

It’s just an indicator!

That's just it. I'm 45, and it wasn't until I laughed at that story that I REALIZED I am a bad person!

[xu82]

That's just it. I'm 45, and it wasn't until I laughed at that story that I REALIZED I am a bad person!

We live, and we learn! Self awareness is the first step!

[Lloyd Braun]

Someone earlier posted some questions / thoughts regarding if the COVID vaccines were indeed effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths from the virus. I thought the following article does a good job of showing and explaining the effectiveness of the vaccines specific to certain age groups. It is a short read, but does a pretty good job summarizing the data to date:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ng-vaccinated/

To further piggyback off of this is the cdc data for death rates per population vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

It is pretty crazy to think that the death rate is higher in the unvaccinated 30-49 year olds than the vaccinated 65-79 year olds.

[XU_Lou]

To further piggyback off of this is the cdc data for death rates per population vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

It is pretty crazy to think that the death rate is higher in the unvaccinated 30-49 year olds than the vaccinated 65-79 year olds.

Interesting.... these numbers don't jibe with what's "currently" going on in Massachusetts right now (or Israel or UK for that matter). The CDC is using a favorable time period of April to early Sept when vaccine failures hadn't had a chance to fully materialize.

Here are the % of vaccinated covid deaths vs all covid deaths, per week, for the last six weeks in MASS:

40.5%
29.1%
38.5%
44.7%
44.6%
32.5%

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/co...onse-reporting

[Lloyd Braun]

Massachusetts averages about 10-15 deaths/day for October so it’s not exactly the greatest sample size to use. They also have a high vaccination rate so of course they will have a higher percentage of deaths from those vaccinated. Booster shots will only further magnify this difference.

[Smails]

Yes, I would support Australia's approach if we could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives. It's a public health emergency, and we should all do what we can do to get us through.

I appreciate you answering the question. Personally, I value freedom of choice, freedom of movement and individual liberty to keep me and my family safe versus the state controlling my movements. Here's some context to what you said you would support:

Melbourne- City of 5 million people has been locked down 6 different times for a total of 265 days...265 days of lockdowns. Shelter in place
Sydney- City of 5 million people has been locked down for 114 days..shelter in place
Coming out of lockdowns if you allow an unvaccinated person in your HOME you are subject to legal action

To each their own but this does not sound like the actions of a free society.