Politics Thread

[X-man]

I read the article. It says: 1) Kristol and others pushed for her as VP and 2) there was a threatened floor fight over Lieberman if McCain picked him.

The article does not say 1) that Kristol and others forced McCain to take her or 2) there would be a floor fight at the convention if McCain didn't pick Palin.

So, the article supports what I posted. It doesn't support what you posted.

The article also says repeatedly that Kristol and his buddies fell in love with Palin on the visits to Alaska and the cruise. And it is clear that McCain's supposed choice (Lieberman) wasn't going to fly with them. Because there were no other options except Palin, as the article also makes clear, Palin was it. And that nomination was imposed on McCain because he (1) knew nothing about her, and (2) had no chemistry with her once he did get acquainted with her.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I think the polarization started in 2000 when the Supreme Court voted to end the recounts in Florida. Regardless of who won, you were going to have a large group of voters who felt disenfranchised in the state of Florida and a whole ton of voters across the nation who wouldn't be happy. In hindsight, they should have just left the recount alone and let it play out.

Couple that with the largely unpopular Iraq fiasco and the lies used to justify it, and you have a huge number of people now who hate one party for the correct or incorrect reason. It also didn't help that Bush and company crushed the economy and bailed out the criminal banks with socialism yet won't or really doesn't want to help the American people.

People complain about Obama, but he was actually pretty average or just a bit better than average president. The discord he experienced and stoked started a decade earlier.

[XU 87]

The article also says repeatedly that Kristol and his buddies fell in love with Palin on the visits to Alaska and the cruise. And it is clear that McCain's supposed choice (Lieberman) wasn't going to fly with them. Because there were no other options except Palin, as the article also makes clear, Palin was it. And that nomination was imposed on McCain because he (1) knew nothing about her, and (2) had no chemistry with her once he did get acquainted with her.

When you post these articles, do you realize we can actually read them and see if they say what you claim they say? The article does not mention or insinuate that Kristol et. al. 1) "forced" Palin on McCain 2) that they threatened a floor fight at the convention if he didn't pick Palin and 3) this floor fight would "doom" his candidacy.

You're engaging in historical fiction.

[noteggs]

I think the polarization started in 2000 when the Supreme Court voted to end the recounts in Florida. Regardless of who won, you were going to have a large group of voters who felt disenfranchised in the state of Florida and a whole ton of voters across the nation who wouldn't be happy. In hindsight, they should have just left the recount alone and let it play out.

Couple that with the largely unpopular Iraq fiasco and the lies used to justify it, and you have a huge number of people now who hate one party for the correct or incorrect reason. It also didn't help that Bush and company crushed the economy and bailed out the criminal banks with socialism yet won't or really doesn't want to help the American people.

People complain about Obama, but he was actually pretty average or just a bit better than average president. The discord he experienced and stoked started a decade earlier.

Ok now I’m confused (sorry folk’s stuff just happens when you get old.) Let me first say, government should should not be in the business of bailing out businesses (Wow, think I just made CAF’s same point a few pages ago, but he should have said “Republicans and some Libertarian’s”. Haha). When you say Bush and company, does that “company” mean Obama? TARP was initiated by the Bush administration and Senate approved with a yes vote from Obama. When the last $350 billion (of the $700 billion approved) was to be used, the Obama administration was in charge and lobbied Congress to approve to release funds.

You said on Bush “the criminal banks with socialism yet won't or really doesn't want to help the American people”. When it came to his first stimulus package in early 2008 (150 billion), the feds gave tax rebates to middle and low income individuals with bipartisan support. Personally, I didn’t like any of the extra spending (sure some of it was needed but I’m not smart enough to figure it out) and think Bush W was only a good president right after 9/11 and not when he got us into the Iraq war.

I didn’t even touch on Obama’s $800 billion stimulus package (except for now).

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Ok now I’m confused (sorry folk’s stuff just happens when you get old.) Let me first say, government should should not be in the business of bailing out businesses (Wow, think I just made CAF’s same point a few pages ago, but he should have said “Republicans and some Libertarian’s”. Haha). When you say Bush and company, does that “company” mean Obama? TARP was initiated by the Bush administration and Senate approved with a yes vote from Obama. When the last $350 billion (of the $700 billion approved) was to be used, the Obama administration was in charge and lobbied Congress to approve to release funds.

You said on Bush “the criminal banks with socialism yet won't or really doesn't want to help the American people”. When it came to his first stimulus package in early 2008 (150 billion), the feds gave tax rebates to middle and low income individuals with bipartisan support. Personally, I didn’t like any of the extra spending (sure some of it was needed but I’m not smart enough to figure it out) and think Bush W was only a good president right after 9/11 and not when he got us into the Iraq war.

I didn’t even touch on Obama’s $800 billion stimulus package (except for now).

If you get into Obama's spending, you must first see that Bush handed him a US economy that was literally day-to-day. Yes Obama was way too Wall Street for my taste, but he got us out of that quagmire (one of which might be in our near future). Obama got them back by putting Warren in charge of monitoring the spending of that TARP money. We all remember the bonus scandal, thank you now Senator Warren.

Bush was an abject failure as a president. He cut taxes, but he never figured out to balance it. He made it harder to declare bankruptcy, got us in two never ending wars, and go ahead and toss in No Child Left Behind which was just awful. No, Bush was terrible and Obama was actually pretty average. Before you complain about government spending and Obama, remember he inherited a DEPRESSION not a recession. What else was he going to do to correct that?

Bush vs Obama, another little last measure Bush had record number of people without health insurance. Obama, ACA was/is terrible, but hey at least people have insurance and it dramatically lowered the uninsured total. We also finally dumped the asinine pre-existing condition rule.

[Strange Brew]

If you get into Obama's spending, you must first see that Bush handed him a US economy that was literally day-to-day. Yes Obama was way too Wall Street for my taste, but he got us out of that quagmire (one of which might be in our near future). Obama got them back by putting Warren in charge of monitoring the spending of that TARP money. We all remember the bonus scandal, thank you now Senator Warren.

Bush was an abject failure as a president. He cut taxes, but he never figured out to balance it. He made it harder to declare bankruptcy, got us in two never ending wars, and go ahead and toss in No Child Left Behind which was just awful. No, Bush was terrible and Obama was actually pretty average. Before you complain about government spending and Obama, remember he inherited a DEPRESSION not a recession. What else was he going to do to correct that?

Bush vs Obama, another little last measure Bush had record number of people without health insurance. Obama, ACA was/is terrible, but hey at least people have insurance and it dramatically lowered the uninsured total. We also finally dumped the asinine pre-existing condition rule.

The Congress cut taxes and didn’t cut spending. Bush signed it. Civics.
Everyone who paid taxes got tax relief. Fact.

The Left in Congress and the WH spent more than any US govt combined under Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

Are u suggesting Obama brokered peace in Iraq and Afghanistan???? Ok...
Iraq and the Taliban/Osama were problems in the 80s and beyond. Bush didn’t start that fire. The National Socialists of Germany built that powder keg and Carter emboldened it’s return.

Healthcare. Not something the Federal govt is given the power over by the states and the people. Bloated, expensive and ineffective.

[Caf]

Let me first say, government should should not be in the business of bailing out businesses (Wow, think I just made CAF’s same point a few pages ago, but he should have said “Republicans and some Libertarian’s”. Haha)

I don’t support this statement. The government backing the economy allows it to grow at rates it otherwise wouldn’t. Obviously the downside of this is it creates moral hazard and multiplies the severity of downturns. If the government is going to regulate the economy it should back it when its imperfections cause collapse and be able to regulate it fully when there are imperfections. That’s not the reality.

My point was just that the Bush bailouts did not represent the ideals a large number of their voters thought they stood for.

[X-band '01]

For all the talk about House potentially flipping to Democrats on Election Day, I'm surprised we don't hear more talk about state legislatures and governors flipping from Republican to Democrat. This is where we could really start to see a Blue Wave on Election Day.

Before you mention the Senate, this is not the year for Democrats to take the Senate. Too many seats for them to defend this cycle, but they've got a much more favorable outlook for flipping the Senate in 2020.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The Congress cut taxes and didn’t cut spending. Bush signed it. Civics.
Everyone who paid taxes got tax relief. Fact.

The Left in Congress and the WH spent more than any US govt combined under Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

Are u suggesting Obama brokered peace in Iraq and Afghanistan???? Ok...
Iraq and the Taliban/Osama were problems in the 80s and beyond. Bush didn’t start that fire. The National Socialists of Germany built that powder keg and Carter emboldened it’s return.

Healthcare. Not something the Federal govt is given the power over by the states and the people. Bloated, expensive and ineffective.

Give me a break, don’t blame congress. Bush had 6 years of House Republican rule.

Explain how the Obama administration was supposed to get the country out of a depression without spending.

While you are at it, why all the cuts on taxes when the budget isn’t even balanced? Why all the spending for the military with corresponding desire to cut programs that help the people? Why cut taxes for corporations when all they do are stock buy backs and continue wage stagnation and lay offs? All that supply side is working great MAGA.


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[ChicagoX]

Give me a break, don’t blame congress. Bush had 6 years of House Republican rule.

Explain how the Obama administration was supposed to get the country out of a depression without spending.

While you are at it, why all the cuts on taxes when the budget isn’t even balanced? Why all the spending for the military with corresponding desire to cut programs that help the people? Why cut taxes for corporations when all they do are stock buy backs and continue wage stagnation and lay offs? All that supply side is working great MAGA.


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I think that enough people are finally seeing supply-side economics for the fraud that it is and have had enough of the crony capitalism that has stagnated wages and wiped out the middle class for nearly four decades.

The Hill: Wages drop despite economic boom