Politics Thread

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I agree X-Man, look more to France/Germany/etc. Those countries have that option to purchase healthcare outside of the non-profit system. My friend and old neighbor works at BMW near Munich, he does very well and purchases separate insurance for his wife and child. The rest of their family are on the mandated plan.

[paulxu]

The European countries (with the exception of England) don't have government run health care. They have universal health care, with most systems being some form of single payer. Taking insurance costs (administration, marketing, etc) out of the equation, naturally lowers the cost. And yes, they don't pay as much for drugs, nor do their doctors make so much.

But like police and fire, they made a social decision to cover everyone. And they've done it at about 1/2 the cost we pay. And their results are better.
Why we want to spend 18% of our GDP on health care while they pay 8-10% is beyond me. It makes us less competitive in the global market as these are costs often born in our products. The real tragedy is that they cover EVERYONE...and we still have millions uninsured.

These numbers are 4 years old now, so the gap is larger in raw dollars. We don't come off so well:

[scoscox]

That conveniently leaves off metrics where we excel. Worth remembering that the US medical system is far superior in specialized care and medical technology and innovation in medical technology.

[Xville]

The problem that you all don't seem to be grasping, is who and how is a single payer health system going to be paid for? Income Taxes, Corporate Taxes, Capital Gains Taxes, Payroll Taxes to Corporations? Somehow, Someway this has to be paid for and again, none of the countries cited have anywhere close to our population not remotely close. Just because it works in some countries in Europe, doesn't mean it would work here.

Medicare has worked well in this country, about 40 trillion in the red at last count by the way.

[bjf123]

This is the biggest pile of crap I will read all day. I have friends and family that live in Canada. I have family that lives and works in the UK. I used to live in Germany. It does not take months to get an MRI. That is fox news bullshit. I will give you their phone numbers, you can call them have them call BS to that crap. I just visited them, and visited my Uncle whose daughter lives in the UK. Good god, perpetuating this myth is the exact reason stupid people believe universal healthcare is bad.

For the record, I think we'll ultimately end up with a single payer system. The costs are spiraling out of control and I don't see that stopping without government price controls which would be implemented the easiest with a single payer system where they can tell the ER that they won't pay $50 for an aspirin, $100 for a needle, $500 for a bag of saline that costs less than $1 to make, etc.

I work with someone who lived in both the UK and Canada. Had an ACL tear playing soccer in the UK. Didn't get to see a doc for weeks, but when she did get in, no MRI was allowed and the diagnosis was a slight knee sprain. Ice it and you'll be fine. Got back to the US months later and the knee hadn't gotten any better. Went to a doctor here and was immediately sent for an MRI. Yep, clearly a tear. I guess her experience was the one exception to the rule?

These reports from Canada also seems to disagree with the experiences of your family. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...in-canada-2016
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0db570d3778ff

[paulxu]

Do people understand what per capita means?

[Caf]

The problem that you all don't seem to be grasping, is who and how is a single payer health system going to be paid for? Income Taxes, Corporate Taxes, Capital Gains Taxes, Payroll Taxes to Corporations? Somehow, Someway this has to be paid for and again, none of the countries cited have anywhere close to our population not remotely close. Just because it works in some countries in Europe, doesn't mean it would work here.

Medicare has worked well in this country, about 40 trillion in the red at last count by the way.

Who pays for the uninsured when they show up at ERs now?

[Xville]

Who pays for the uninsured when they show up at ERs now?

In the end, government and thus you and I do. That's on a per incident basis, and not every uninsured person go to the er..so how much of a cost now would it be to basically insure everyone 24/7?

Some on here try to say costs would go down because of the larger pool, that's only the case in a private free market system, not the system we are talking about.

You in for trillions more in federal spending, more corporate taxes, capital gains taxes etc? How do you think wages for workers would look then?

[Xville]

I agree X-Man, look more to France/Germany/etc. Those countries have that option to purchase healthcare outside of the non-profit system. My friend and old neighbor works at BMW near Munich, he does very well and purchases separate insurance for his wife and child. The rest of their family are on the mandated plan.

So your buddy does very well for himself, has option for "free healthcare" yet chooses not to...I thought the healthcare there was so fantastic? So not only is he paying into crappy mandated plan, but supplemental as well because why? He just feels like it, or is it because services suck

[X-man]

Do people understand what per capita means?

Apparently not. Nor do they understand that healthcare is not a free good no matter how it is paid for. If it isn't paid for by taxes, it is paid for by insurance. But the point is that it costs less per capita no matter how it is paid for in single payer countries (at least some of them). And the outcomes in terms of impact on healthcare are better in single payer systems. This isn't high math here, just facts.