Give me myles davis, or give me death!!

Muskeagle · 01-13-2017, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by principal

Now you are both equivocating and moving the goal posts. You initially said Dez didn't do anything wrong, now you are saying he didn't do anything illegal. Also, he did a few things that were wrong, if the rumors are true:

1. Allegedly he was in the dorms when he was not supposed to be, violating school policy.
2. Allegedly he was drinking underage, which is both illegal and violates school policy.
3. Allegedly he lied saying he would use a condom and didn't, which may be illegal and is definitely wrong, and you would agree if it were your daughter (no matter how stupid the girl's actions, his are not justified).
4. Allegedly he used the girl, which while neither illegal nor against school policy is still wrong.
5. I would argue premarital sex is also wrong, morally.
6. Also, if I remember correctly, he was in a probationary period at the time of the incident. If correct, several of the above would be grounds for dismissal, but add one more thing to the list of wrongs either way, he violated his probation, which is wrong.

The fact that some may consider these trivial offenses does not change the fact that he did indeed do several wrong things, contrary to your original statement:

"Dez didn't do anything wrong."

So he is alleged to have done several things wrong and at least one illegal thing, your equivocation and moving of the goal posts notwithstanding. If the above are true I would also have chosen to throw him out. Winning isn't that important to me relative to doing what is right.

Principal

I don't know how people can sweep this one under the rug. I don't think Principal is trying to "talk from the ivory tower" or even necessarily say that he agrees with the punishment, but simply pointing out that he DID do things that are considered wrong by the institution he represented. One of you mentioned the fine you got for drinking in the dorms....a fine you got because you were doing something against school policy. No one (no one here at least) is saying he or she is against pre-marital sex, but if the bolded statement is true (which I've heard was the big thing) then he did NOT have CONSENSUAL premarital sex. The girl consented to sex with a condom...NOT without. He was expelled by a jury of his peers by the way. You can be expelled for many things that may not be "illegal" in the city/state/country you live in....they just have to violate the insitutions policies. IF number 3 is true, then as much as I liked Dez as a player, as much as he seemed to be a good kid who maybe made a bad decision, as much as he was a leader on the court in in the lockerroom....then I think he got what he deserved. Are there lesser punishments for the other things...or maybe none at all? sure. If he had sex with the girl on the basis of a promised condom....then he needed to go. That's some pretty serious shit...with serious potential consequences...from disease to pregnancy which SHE did not consent to.

bleedXblue · 01-13-2017, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Muskeagle

I don't know how people can sweep this one under the rug. I don't think Principal is trying to "talk from the ivory tower" or even necessarily say that he agrees with the punishment, but simply pointing out that he DID do things that are considered wrong by the institution he represented. One of you mentioned the fine you got for drinking in the dorms....a fine you got because you were doing something against school policy. No one (no one here at least) is saying he or she is against pre-marital sex, but if the bolded statement is true (which I've heard was the big thing) then he did NOT have CONSENSUAL premarital sex. The girl consented to sex with a condom...NOT without. He was expelled by a jury of his peers by the way. You can be expelled for many things that may not be "illegal" in the city/state/country you live in....they just have to violate the insitutions policies. IF number 3 is true, then as much as I liked Dez as a player, as much as he seemed to be a good kid who maybe made a bad decision, as much as he was a leader on the court in in the lockerroom....then I think he got what he deserved. Are there lesser punishments for the other things...or maybe none at all? sure. If he had sex with the girl on the basis of a promised condom....then he needed to go. That's some pretty serious shit...with serious potential consequences...from disease to pregnancy which SHE did not consent to.

No one is sweeping this under the rug. The general overall position is that Dez did what lots of other college students have done over the years......and was held to a different standard and ultimately expelled.

I know Joe Deters made a public statement at one point and basically said he found no wrong doing.

Dez filed a lawsuit and looks as though he likely got some type of compensation.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...wsuit/8111709/

principal · 01-13-2017, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by bleedXblue

No one is sweeping this under the rug. The general overall position is that Dez did what lots of other college students have done over the years......and was held to a different standard and ultimately expelled.

I know Joe Deters made a public statement at one point and basically said he found no wrong doing.

Dez filed a lawsuit and looks as though he likely got some type of compensation.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...wsuit/8111709/

Was Deters speaking as a county prosecutor? If so, he was saying there isn't sufficient evidence for a trial. If not then we need to know what he was saying (may be in article, I've not re-read it). Regardless, Deters was looking at it from a legal standpoint, not a university policy standpoint.

This is not directed at Muskeagle's above comment:

Additionally, why do the Dez supporters refuse to even acknowledge the probation? He wasn't treated the same as who? Who are you aware of that was on probation for a televised punch to someone's head and then did what Dez did and was treated differently? You are all comparing a single offense while not on probation to a multiple offense incident while on probation. If he was on a zero tolerance probation, or something similar (as has been suggested), and he violated the probation, not only are you comparing apples and oranges but he deserved to go. It's simple:

Anyone violating the terms of a probation is expelled
Dez Wells violated the terms of a probation
Therefore Dez Wells was expelled

The only possible argument is to take issue with one of the above premises. If you don't know for sure whether or not he was on probation, what the terms were, or whether or not he violated the terms, then you have no business making definitive claims about whether or not he was mistreated, not treated like others, or was railroaded out of town. You can make all of the ad hominem arguments you like about what I would be like at a party, what I or most others do or don't do while in college, whether or not I'm speaking from an ivory tower, and whether or not pre-marital sex is objectively wrong, but all of the fallacies in the world won't change the fact that in doing so you may have made a funny but you've failed to address the argument.

If my prior statements are true, then Dez deserved to go. If you don't know whether or not they are true then your opinion should be tempered accordingly.

Principal

Edit: One correction. I was thinking Dez had thrown the first punch, which is not the case. It appears he was the first to get physical, but it was a shove and not a punch. He did end up swinging at some guys, and it appears to be aggressive as opposed to fighting someone off, but it all moves pretty quickly so it is hard to tell. Regardless, he was apparently on probation for the brawl and violated the terms. If he was not on probation or if he was and did not violate the terms, then only the condom issue remains as possible grounds for expulsion. As should be clear, if none of these things are true then he did not deserve to be expelled.

xu82 · 01-13-2017, 04:46 PM

I'm glad this is all behind us. Apparently not far enough yet, but farther every day.

Juice · 01-13-2017, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Muskeagle

I don't know how people can sweep this one under the rug. I don't think Principal is trying to "talk from the ivory tower" or even necessarily say that he agrees with the punishment, but simply pointing out that he DID do things that are considered wrong by the institution he represented. One of you mentioned the fine you got for drinking in the dorms....a fine you got because you were doing something against school policy. No one (no one here at least) is saying he or she is against pre-marital sex, but if the bolded statement is true (which I've heard was the big thing) then he did NOT have CONSENSUAL premarital sex. The girl consented to sex with a condom...NOT without. He was expelled by a jury of his peers by the way. You can be expelled for many things that may not be "illegal" in the city/state/country you live in....they just have to violate the insitutions policies. IF number 3 is true, then as much as I liked Dez as a player, as much as he seemed to be a good kid who maybe made a bad decision, as much as he was a leader on the court in in the lockerroom....then I think he got what he deserved. Are there lesser punishments for the other things...or maybe none at all? sure. If he had sex with the girl on the basis of a promised condom....then he needed to go. That's some pretty serious shit...with serious potential consequences...from disease to pregnancy which SHE did not consent to.

It wasn't a jury of peers.