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  1. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM#24 View Post
    Still trying to figure out what everyone's objection is to LIV. Is it really the Saudis ?
    Would the opinion be the same or different if it was Warren Buffet or Rob Walton or Gates or Bezos funding this ?
    Or is it just that it's different from what we're used to ?

    I follow golf more than most but quite frankly, stripping off the majors, there may be about 10 PGA tourneys (including WGC events) or so that I'll even tune into for more than a few minutes.
    So far, IMO, the LIV tourneys to date have interested me more than or the same as the PGA tourney they were opposite in terms of golfers I'd tune into watch.
    Seriously, who are the golfers that move the needle in any significant way if Cam Smith doesn't or more so than Mickelson, Koepka, DeChambeau, Dustin, Sergio ?
    Tiger, then huge drop off to McIlroy, then big drop off to Thomas, Spieth, Rahm, anyone else ?
    Rory by far moves the needle more than anyone not named Tiger and he’s gotten even more popular than he was due to kind of being the players’ spokesperson for the tour. Speith, Thomas, Rahm and Thomas are all up there. I bet the average golf fan didn’t even know who Cameron smith was before the open win even though he won the players. He’s just not interesting.

    For me, I personally have an issue with the liv tour because it’s the saudis, and I have an issue with players who joined the liv tour and now want to come back to the pga tour to olay in things they want and are suing essentially tour members. To me, that’s effed up. If you want to go join the liv and be an employee of the Saudi government, by all means go right ahead, it’s your life. However, stop this attempt at double dipping bs
    Last edited by Xville; 08-11-2022 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #372
    Supporting Member 94GRAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM#24 View Post
    Still trying to figure out what everyone's objection is to LIV. Is it really the Saudis ?
    Would the opinion be the same or different if it was Warren Buffet or Rob Walton or Gates or Bezos funding this ?
    Or is it just that it's different from what we're used to ?

    I follow golf more than most but quite frankly, stripping off the majors, there may be about 10 PGA tourneys (including WGC events) or so that I'll even tune into for more than a few minutes.
    So far, IMO, the LIV tourneys to date have interested me more than or the same as the PGA tourney they were opposite in terms of golfers I'd tune into watch.
    Seriously, who are the golfers that move the needle in any significant way if Cam Smith doesn't or more so than Mickelson, Koepka, DeChambeau, Dustin, Sergio ?
    Tiger, then huge drop off to McIlroy, then big drop off to Thomas, Spieth, Rahm, anyone else ?
    I actually tune in to see the impossible shots those guys make. I could care less who hits them. That's why the LIV coverage on Youtube has been superior to the PGA coverage, they show twice the amount of quality shots.

    PS- I LOVE seeing the shanks as well.
    Mama always told me, stupid is as stupid does. @danagardens

  3. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM#24 View Post
    Still trying to figure out what everyone's objection is to LIV.
    I lost two friends on 9/11. I stand with the families of 9/11 victims in renouncing this tour. I sincerely hope that every attempt, every challenge by these scumbags to play in traditional tournaments is met with stiff opposition and ultimate expulsion. Obviously my personal opinion but Iím still trying to figure out why everyone DOESNíT object to it.

  4. #374
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    I mean, 9/11, Khashoggi, whatever, the fact of the matter is that the Saudi government is a major ally of the United States and has been for a long time. Saudi Arabia is clearly far from perfect, but I'm not going to avoid watching a golf tour because the sovereingn investment fund of a US ally is involved.

    To each their own, obviously.

  5. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoMuskies View Post
    I mean, 9/11, Khashoggi, whatever, the fact of the matter is that the Saudi government is a major ally of the United States and has been for a long time. Saudi Arabia is clearly far from perfect, but I'm not going to avoid watching a golf tour because the sovereingn investment fund of a US ally is involved.

    To each their own, obviously.
    I'm older than most here, I read the news everyday (paper and online) and not just sports. I didn't realize until LIV that I was supposed to be boycotting all things with a Saudi connection. I also follow soccer and didn't even know they bought Newcastle United until LIV.
    With the upmost respect and sympathies to all that had a connection to 9/11, I didn't even know this 9/11 family group existed until LIV.

    I guess I didn't know that golf and the PGA Tour was the most important thing in our lives.

  6. #376
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    PGA Tour has played this perfectly. Reading some of these posts you'd think the only companies/individuals doing business with |Saudis are Liv golfers. Biden was just in Saudi Arabia asking for help, They give the pga tour billions in advertising and had a co sponsored pga/european tournament there up until this year.

    We are now paying college athletes up front money but how dare golfers get the same thing. Even Tennis players get appearance fees, the pga system has been messed up for a while now and it took Liv for them to finally start making changes

  7. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuwillie View Post
    PGA Tour has played this perfectly. Reading some of these posts you'd think the only companies/individuals doing business with |Saudis are Liv golfers. Biden was just in Saudi Arabia asking for help, They give the pga tour billions in advertising and had a co sponsored pga/european tournament there up until this year.

    We are now paying college athletes up front money but how dare golfers get the same thing. Even Tennis players get appearance fees, the pga system has been messed up for a while now and it took Liv for them to finally start making changes
    The pga gives millions upon million to charities, liv does none of that and are using the sport to wash over their atrocities . Plenty of golfers that are on the tour get upfront money. In fact, almost all if not all, make plenty of money outside of events on the tour, so that’s a complete non sequitur.

    I don’t care what our stupid government does in regards to Saudi Arabia. That again has nothing to do with this. Link to where the billions in advertising Saudi Arabia is giving to the tour?
    Last edited by Xville; 08-11-2022 at 02:19 PM.

  8. #378
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    I know it's an easy sound bite with the concept you only get paid if you earn it. However, to me something is not right with a professional athlete that has earned his way into a professional tournament not getting paid anything (missed cut). The tournament is charging admission, collecting sponsor and TV money and in many instances using the NIL of said missed cut players to earn that revenue and you travel on your own dime, play two crap rounds and you get $0. Making the cut and then having two crap rounds gets you over $10,000. They should at least give the missed cut players $3,000-$4,000 or so to cover their expenses. That's only an extra $250,000-$300,000 or so added to the total purse.

    30 years ago Norman was complaining that the top level players were not receiving enough money and had an idea that the PGA Tour took (stole) and turned into the WGC events.

    Amazing how much money the Tour all of a sudden found to create basically the LIV concept within the PGA Tour.

  9. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xville View Post
    The pga gives millions upon million to charities, liv does none of that and are using the sport to wash over their atrocities . Plenty of golfers that are on the tour get upfront money. In fact, almost all if not all, make plenty of money outside of events on the tour, so that’s a complete non sequitur.

    I don’t care what our stupid government does in regards to Saudi Arabia. That again has nothing to do with this.
    But you're ok with the pga tour accepting billions of dollars from the Saudis? And having a tour stop there just last year! And you agree that the pga does not give appearance fees. That is so outdated when you look at sports today. They are finally making some changes but would they have if Liv didn't come around

  10. #380
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    While admirable that the PGA gives money to charities (and purportedly LIV is doing likewise...no idea to what extent), if I'm a player, why wouldn't I argue that the money going to the charities should be used to increase purses and then I'll decide how much I want to give to the charities of my choosing (and get the tax write-off). Currently a PGA Tour player could a make an argument to never give to charities by claiming he does so every time he wins money at a tournament.

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