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Thread: Politics Thread

  1. #3981
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
    One of you guys want to tweet Trump and let him know that China is not the one paying tariffs?
    Paul, I think this is mostly about IP. If you're suggesting that we pay with higher prices, that only becomes true if China can move their goods.

    Either way, this is more complicated than fair trade, and the President's focus is well placed in that regard. The Chinese are thieves.
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  2. #3982
    Supporting Member bobbiemcgee's Avatar
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    I hope they cost more me than my Costco membership.
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  3. #3983
    Supporting Member paulxu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xudash View Post
    Paul, I think this is mostly about IP. If you're suggesting that we pay with higher prices, that only becomes true if China can move their goods.

    Either way, this is more complicated than fair trade, and the President's focus is well placed in that regard. The Chinese are thieves.
    Dash, I agree it is much more complicated than it seems. But I'm confused on why he keeps repeating that China is paying. They are clearly not, and Kudlow admitted that the American consumer is paying for the tariffs. The intellectual theft and other problems China creates need to be addressed.
    But he should be honest about the realities.

    Billions have been lost by farmers, and he is asking for another 15 billion for them. So we are getting hit twice. The Chinese products are still coming in and are on our shelves; they just cost us more.
    ...he went up late, and I was already up there.

  4. #3984
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
    Dash, I agree it is much more complicated than it seems. But I'm confused on why he keeps repeating that China is paying. They are clearly not, and Kudlow admitted that the American consumer is paying for the tariffs. The intellectual theft and other problems China creates need to be addressed.
    But he should be honest about the realities.

    Billions have been lost by farmers, and he is asking for another 15 billion for them. So we are getting hit twice. The Chinese products are still coming in and are on our shelves; they just cost us more.
    I can't speak for his tactics when it comes to communication and negotiations. On one or many levels you're making a fair point.

    Having noted that, please consider:

    1. That the Chinese are perpetually dishonest - we (the world) would be in a better place if they played by ethical rules; and

    2. You're asking that a non-political man in the world's most powerful political office be honest on a global issue that is bigger than trade.

    You have every right to ask for honesty. But please enjoy a good bourbon as you sit by your phone, waiting for the never-coming response to your request. I don't believe he's talking to the American people. I believe he's talking over the American people to the Chinese negotiators. And the Chinese have never seen the likes of Trump or his staff at the negotiating table. This is where this becomes business to him and not political peacocking like it would be with a pure politician, and that frankly is a good thing.

    Otherwise, I wonder if the Chinese products are still coming in at the same level as when none of this fussing was taking place. At this point and level, pain is felt by both sides. Pain and good negotiations will hopefully bring us to a mutually beneficial conclusion.

    And that mutually beneficial conclusion will most likely be breached by the Chinese at some point.
    X A V I E R

  5. #3985
    Supporting Member bjf123's Avatar
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    I think when Trump says China pays, he could be thinking long term if companies currently having their products made in China move them elsewhere to avoid the higher costs resulting from the tariffs. They’ll be paying in terms of lost revenue coming into the country. Short term, the US consumers will end up paying the higher tariffs.


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  6. #3986
    Voice of Reason Masterofreality's Avatar
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  7. #3987
    Supporting Member paulxu's Avatar
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    Fair points Dash. He is speaking to his base and unfortunately they will buy into anything.
    It is extremely complex, and recognition of the inter-connectivity of the global market is just now catching up for a lot of people.
    Many examples of American businesses being hurt because China does sub assembly, then ships back here of completion...and many more like it.

    Maybe Trump shorted a bunch of stocks yesterday :)
    ...he went up late, and I was already up there.

  8. #3988
    Voice of Reason Masterofreality's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm speaking to the Catholic choir here, but all this outrage over the new Anti-Abortion laws being passed is amazing to me.
    Taking the context that admitted racist Margaret Sanger basically expressed that permitting abortion was a way to minimize births from Women of Color, which all the "progressive left" seem to just ignore, the screaming that a woman would lose her "reproductive rights" just because she was irresponsible in advance of sex, or blatantly ignoring the potential outcomes immediately after is almost hilarious. Yeah, look, us guys are stupid animals and many are totally irresponsible too, but hey, "enlightened women". How about thinking through your actions and stop killing baby humans if you're actions produce a "product".
    And, yeah. I will say from the mountaintop that if either of my daughters became pregnant in any circumstance, we would be right there to support her in having that child and help raise it. The folks across the street had that exact circumstance happen (not rape) and they stepped right up and helped their daughter and it has been a superb outcome for all of them. I know that not all people are so fortunate, but this shouting defense of abortion seems so in concert with the Outrage Culture of the entire Left. They are already organizing a "Women's March" for the summer. Perfect. Another garbage "action" that makes the participants feel good about how "woke" they are and accomplishes zero.
    Roe v Wade at it's heart was a States Rights issue, and now the States are exercising their rights. This will be an interesting Supreme Court case in a couple of years. Public Opinion in the US is exactly evenly split- 47% for and 47% against abortion, so the narrative that abortion is "the will of the people" is bunk junk.

    By the way, Way to Go Ohio!!
    Last edited by Masterofreality; 05-15-2019 at 12:05 PM.
    "I Got CHAMPIONS in that Lockerroom!" -Stanley Burrell

  9. #3989
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    Women and men support/oppose abortion in roughly the same percentages. I suppose for the pro-life women it is just a case of internalized misogyny.

  10. #3990
    Supporting Member noteggs's Avatar
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    My youngest daughter called me today from the high school nurse’s office. Apparently I had to give the nurse consent so she could give my daughter two Advil’s.

    Let me get this straight, a high school girl needs parental consent to be given Advil but certain states don’t require consent for an abortion (an actual medical procedure). Strange

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