Covid-19

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I promise not to go near your mother. Point was we don’t need the government telling us what to do. If people are worried about the virus continue to stay home or wear a mask. The point is choice. Everyone should have one.

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You literally say right here that what your point was: We don't need the government telling us what to do. The point is choice.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

Again not doing the opposite of what I am told. Masks are fine if you want them but if you are not washing your hands and wiping down surfaces, that is a much bigger issue. I think its funny that people walk around with masks, but go to the store and touch everything on the shelf with no gloves on. I think you are much more likely to get the disease by hand to mouth than if you are not out wearing a mask. So I agree with keeping your distance, disinfecting everything, frequently washing your hands and staying home if you do not feel well, or have a fever. But yeah I do the opposite of everything I am told, because I don't think people should be forced to wear masks, because one reason, well science says it doesn't really have proof that it helps. My problem is that masks get dirty and peoples hands get dirty, so if you are not frequently disposing them, they can become a germ haven.

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Now we have a fun twist in a different direction. It's about science now! Saying the 'science doesn't really have proof it helps' is at best a misrepresentation of facts and at worst a complete lie. Science has plenty of proof that masks help. Why the hell do you think surgical masks exist? Doctors just like to wear them? White it is true that the science around whether wearing a cloth mask helps protect you from getting the virus is somewhat inclusive, it's pretty clear that it would help prevent you from spreading the virus to others if you were infected. So maybe it is about choice. Specifically your choice to disregard the welfare of others if it is slightly inconvenient for you or incongruous with your political beliefs, or you just "don't like being told what to do".

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Originally Posted by xu82

Which is why you just wear the mask in public settings. You don’t KNOW if you have it or not, so do the responsible thing. Why is that so hard? I wear a mask at the grocery store out of respect for the people who work there. They deserve that. I’d guess 80-90% of the people in the store yesterday had a mask on. There was no government mandate to do so, it’s just the right thing to do.

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Thank you. Just wear the mask. It's not going to hurt you, and it might help someone else.

Who? Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?

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Originally Posted by gomuskies

who? Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?

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give me that g string!!!!

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Originally Posted by boozehound

You literally say right here that what your point was: We don't need the government telling us what to do. The point is choice.



Now we have a fun twist in a different direction. It's about science now! Saying the 'science doesn't really have proof it helps' is at best a misrepresentation of facts and at worst a complete lie. Science has plenty of proof that masks help. Why the hell do you think surgical masks exist? Doctors just like to wear them? White it is true that the science around whether wearing a cloth mask helps protect you from getting the virus is somewhat inclusive, it's pretty clear that it would help prevent you from spreading the virus to others if you were infected. So maybe it is about choice. Specifically your choice to disregard the welfare of others if it is slightly inconvenient for you or incongruous with your political beliefs, or you just "don't like being told what to do".



Thank you. Just wear the mask. It's not going to hurt you, and it might help someone else.

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Who is being political? Have I said anything about politics? I live in KY and work in both Ohio and KY. I don't agree with what either Governor is doing. Mike DeWine walked back the face covering requirement because he realized that wasn't the right thing to do. I am free to believe what I do and I also believe that people have rights and the right to live as they feel fit. Do you disagree? And does anyone really like being told what to do? If my company tells me we have to wear a mask, then I will because they pay my bills. Again I will continue to practice safe measures but will also continue to live the way I feel fit.

I have been in this thing and worked in busier settings than probably any business out there through this whole thing. We have not required masks, some people choose to do so, and we supply masks (30,000) but they are disposable and would last us about two to three weeks if we had to wear them daily. We have spent a ton of resources managing flow, disinfecting the crap out of things, keeping our distance, washing hands frequently, providing gloves and a ton of sanitizer. we allow people to self quarantine and stay home and get paid, but not many people have done that, because they want to work.

My business across KY and Ohio probably sees 12,000 to 15,000 customers a week and out of my 170 employees, we have had zero people get sick and no positive tests. Our company has 4,000 employees throughout the country, including New York, Illinois, Indiana, Arizona, Texas and California and we just haven't see many people test positive. I think in field operations is has been 6 people and all recovered quickly and have returned to work. But I respect everyone's decision to take measures as they feel fit.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

Who? Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?

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Hahaha. Great quote. Props Go!

Just got an email from Father Graham. For now, it looks like X is planning to have students on campus this fall.

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Originally Posted by Juice

This doctor from the University of Iowa disagrees with you.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahae...nfection-risk/

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1. Check the date.

2. Check the content of the article. It talks about wearing surgical masks not preventing you from getting it. Says if you are sick and have to leave your house wear one. Problem is we know about so many people who are asymptomatic now. Which is why the recommendation now is for everyone to wear them, especially as more people start getting back out in life.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

Again not doing the opposite of what I am told. Masks are fine if you want them but if you are not washing your hands and wiping down surfaces, that is a much bigger issue. I think its funny that people walk around with masks, but go to the store and touch everything on the shelf with no gloves on. I think you are much more likely to get the disease by hand to mouth than if you are not out wearing a mask. So I agree with keeping your distance, disinfecting everything, frequently washing your hands and staying home if you do not feel well, or have a fever. But yeah I do the opposite of everything I am told, because I don't think people should be forced to wear masks, because one reason, well science says it doesn't really have proof that it helps. My problem is that masks get dirty and peoples hands get dirty, so if you are not frequently disposing them, they can become a germ haven.

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1. Science does say wearing masks helps to keep from spreading if you have it.

2. Wearing gloves in the grocery store does nothing you realize that right? Wearing gloves and touching things then touching yourself or other things is no different than doing so with your hands. The key is to bring hand sanitizer and use it frequently and dont touch your face.

Wearing gloves is good in a situation like pumping gas. Something you are going to do for a few mins and then take off gloves and throw away without touching other stuff while gloves are on.

Today’s Reality Check for Ohio:
Model Projection of new Cases per Day (Mitigated) 2,000 on April 17. (Projected Today 4/29 shows 1,163 per OSU model)
1. Today's Actual new reported Cases: 534- 629 less than the model which has never been reached despite more testing.
Highest Daily Total Increase in cases since report began on 3/9: 1380 last Monday 4/20 with 56 probable/assumed- A LOT from the Marion County prison. Never anywhere NEAR the projected peak. NEVER
2. Actual TOTAL Hospitalizations: 3,421 (up only 81 yesterday) since reporting began over a month ago. Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after all that Testing over a week ago?
3. Actual TOTAL ICU admits: 1,014 since reporting began a month and a half ago (up only 10 from yesterday.) Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after Testing??
4. New Deaths today: 138 to 937 total. .
Total Ohio Hospital Beds: 34,000
Total Ohio ICU Beds:2500
Ohio Population; 11.7 million

The case rate so far in this state is .00014 of the total state population.
The hospitalization rate so far in this state is .00029 of the total state population
The death rate so far in this state is .000080 of the total state population.
Models never close to being reached, yet this state is still basically under lock & key.
And with all of these numbers of deaths that include a growing number of "presumed" from Corona, but Acton still can't tell the press how many people have recovered, even with all these other stats that they can so readily quote? This is smelling more and more like "Let's keep the herd fear going".
Getting less and less impressed with this solicitous bull crap.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Today’s Reality Check for Ohio:
Model Projection of new Cases per Day (Mitigated) 2,000 on April 17. (Projected Today 4/29 shows 1,163 per OSU model)
1. Today's Actual new reported Cases: 534- 629 less than the model which has never been reached despite more testing.
Highest Daily Total Increase in cases since report began on 3/9: 1380 last Monday 4/20 with 56 probable/assumed- A LOT from the Marion County prison. Never anywhere NEAR the projected peak. NEVER
2. Actual TOTAL Hospitalizations: 3,421 (up only 81 yesterday) since reporting began over a month ago. Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after all that Testing over a week ago?
3. Actual TOTAL ICU admits: 1,014 since reporting began a month and a half ago (up only 10 from yesterday.) Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after Testing??
4. New Deaths today: 138 to 937 total. .
Total Ohio Hospital Beds: 34,000
Total Ohio ICU Beds:2500
Ohio Population; 11.7 million

The case rate so far in this state is .00014 of the total state population.
The hospitalization rate so far in this state is .00029 of the total state population
The death rate so far in this state is .000080 of the total state population.
Models never close to being reached, yet this state is still basically under lock & key.
And with all of these numbers of deaths that include a growing number of "presumed" from Corona, but Acton still can't tell the press how many people have recovered, even with all these other stats that they can so readily quote? This is smelling more and more like "Let's keep the herd fear going".
Getting less and less impressed with this solicitous bull crap.

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MOR,
I think the problem lies in the fact that no one in charge is willing to admit that the original models/projections might have been incorrect. They were working with the best data they had and when it didn’t pan out people weren’t willing to admit it and adjust the strategies. I know people will say the numbers are down because of the precautions that were put in place, but, models were crafted on total social distancing, etc. We all know that was never a true reality. I, like you, think DeWine was correct to do what he did, but, as more information has surfaced and numbers are changing (for the better—-thank goodness) no one wanted to change the strategy/response. My biggest beef being an old history teacher is the fact that our governor has pretty much let an un-elected official run the state. Intentions were good results for the economy not so much.

Agree Bob. I should have put in the comments that the models were in fact based upon mitigation actions like Social Distancing......and they are still wrong...by miles!!!

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Agree Bob. I should have put in the comments that the models were in fact based upon mitigation actions like Social Distancing......and they are still wrong...by miles!!!

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The problem I think with the average person is that they think that we beat the models because of social distancing. They hear Dr. Acton blow steam up their asses and treat every word as gospel. So when the next step/demand/order comes from her and Dewine that we need everyone testing before we open up, they hear it as the absolute truth because "they were right before and look how well we are doing!"

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Originally Posted by Juice

The problem I think with the average person is that they think that we beat the models because of social distancing. They hear Dr. Acton blow steam up their asses and treat every word as gospel. So when the next step/demand/order comes from her and Dewine that we need everyone testing before we open up, they hear it as the absolute truth because "they were right before and look how well we are doing!"

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I obviously can’t speak for the “average person”, but I think the models just sucked. Period. Whether incompetence or to scare us into behaving. Sadly, we have too many fools surrounding us.

Still, I think being responsible about wearing a mask at the grocery store and avoiding lining up 3 deep at the bar for happy hour make sense.

Encouraging news about maybe a treatment and possibly a vaccine lately, so let’s pray for the best so we can bounce back.

"In Iowa, Gov. Kim Reynolds announced last Friday that anyone in the state refusing to return to work due to concerns over contracting Covid-19, which has as of press time killed over 60,000 Americans, would be considered as a "voluntary quit" from their job and ineligible for unemployment benefits.

"If you're an employer and you offer to bring your employee back to work and they decide not to, that's a voluntary quit," said Reynolds. "Therefore, they would not be eligible for the unemployment money."

Seems rough, but also probably necessary. There should be some sort of process for people in vulnerable categories to seek an exception, though.

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Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee

"In Iowa, Gov. Kim Reynolds announced last Friday that anyone in the state refusing to return to work due to concerns over contracting Covid-19, which has as of press time killed over 60,000 Americans, would be considered as a "voluntary quit" from their job and ineligible for unemployment benefits.

"If you're an employer and you offer to bring your employee back to work and they decide not to, that's a voluntary quit," said Reynolds. "Therefore, they would not be eligible for the unemployment money."

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Yes that is a pretty dumb statement. I would say that companies should give people some time without losing their jobs, but you can’t wait forever. At some point you have to run your business. If someone has PTO, they should be able to take it for a certain period of time, but just like FMLA, it can’t last forever. If you don’t have PTO and your employer offers you to come back, then it is up to the individual to accept that and get paid or sit home and not get paid. Companies should allow someone also to get unpaid time off for a period of time but not for as long as the person wants. Unemployment shouldn’t cover someone who refuses to work in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

Yes that is a pretty dumb statement. I would say that companies should give people some time without losing their jobs, but you can’t wait forever. At some point you have to run your business. If someone has PTO, they should be able to take it for a certain period of time, but just like FMLA, it can’t last forever. If you don’t have PTO and your employer offers you to come back, then it is up to the individual to accept that and get paid or sit home and not get paid. Companies should allow someone also to get unpaid time off for a period of time but not for as long as the person wants. Unemployment shouldn’t cover someone who refuses to work in my opinion.

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Is daycare back open in that state? Assuming they are still closed, What are people who dont have child care supposed to do?

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Originally Posted by Xville

Is daycare back open in that state? Assuming they are still closed, What are people who dont have child care supposed to do?

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Bring your kid to work day!

Seriously though, it's a great question. What will happen is spontaneous "neighborhood day cares" will be popping up. The hair dresser down the street needs to make a few bucks while she's out of work and getting no unemployment since she's 1099'ed. A dozen families need help, and suddenly you have mixed a bunch of kids. They may as well be in school.

Is no one thinking this stuff through?

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Originally Posted by Juice

The problem I think with the average person is that they think that we beat the models because of social distancing. They hear Dr. Acton blow steam up their asses and treat every word as gospel. So when the next step/demand/order comes from her and Dewine that we need everyone testing before we open up, they hear it as the absolute truth because "they were right before and look how well we are doing!"

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Add to that, Acton stands there with this Dog Sincere face and gives you that solicitous tone like "I know what we're going through is hard" garbage and people, and the milquetoast Ohio media just lap it up with no tough questions. I guess because she's so "Sincere". Sorry Amy. Sincerity doesn't pay the bills.

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Originally Posted by xu82

I obviously can’t speak for the “average person”, but I think the models just sucked. Period. Whether incompetence or to scare us into behaving. Sadly, we have too many fools surrounding us.

Still, I think being responsible about wearing a mask at the grocery store and avoiding lining up 3 deep at the bar for happy hour make sense.

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Yeah the models sucked, like I've been pointing out for weeks, but DeWine and Acton keep using them as justification for this lockdown. And like I said above, no milquetoast media member calls them on it. It's amazing the incompetence in all of the media now, both national & local.

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Originally Posted by Xville

Is daycare back open in that state? Assuming they are still closed, What are people who dont have child care supposed to do?

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No daycare, no bars, no restaurants, no gyms and no pools in KY, at least until after May 25th. I think you can go to church starting May 25th. End of phase 1. Phase 1 begins March 11th. Beshear is bonkers.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/kentuck...-plan/32321385

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Agree Bob. I should have put in the comments that the models were in fact based upon mitigation actions like Social Distancing......and they are still wrong...by miles!!!

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So at first when the models were radically off, they did underestimated the effectiveness of social distancing. They were adjusted based on actual data, but were still far off. Then again and again, but are still are off.

Why is this? There aren't many variables that go into an epidemiological model. The answer has been provided by numerous scientific studies released in the last few weeks:
1) The virus does not spread nearly as easy as we were initially led to believe. The majority of spread takes place when people are in confined spaces with low ventilation for prolonged periods - think subways, elevators, hospital rooms, old/poorly ventilated work spaces, and housing. The virus isn't lurking on items at grocery stores or blowing in the air outside.
2) The majority of the cases are minor or asymptomatic - so it's far less deadly. Some estimates have the infection fatality rate comparable to the flu, except for the vulnerable.

Until these findings are reflected in forecast models, they will continue to be off, and so will our policy.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

No daycare, no bars, no restaurants, no gyms and no pools in KY, at least until after May 25th. I think you can go to church starting May 25th. End of phase 1. Phase 1 begins March 11th. Beshear is bonkers.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/kentuck...-plan/32321385

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Sorry, I meant iowa, but yes beshear is a doofus. When are these stupid daily press conferences going to end? Seriously.

At least he's letting Churchill Downs get going again!

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Add to that, Acton stands there with this Dog Sincere face and gives you that solicitous tone like "I know what we're going through is hard" garbage and people, and the milquetoast Ohio media just lap it up with no tough questions. I guess because she's so "Sincere". Sorry Amy. Sincerity doesn't pay the bills.



Yeah the models sucked, like I've been pointing out for weeks, but DeWine and Acton keep using them as justification for this lockdown. And like I said above, no milquetoast media member calls them on it. It's amazing the incompetence in all of the media now, both national & local.

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Incompetent? Perhaps you misunderstand their intent. Maybe they are quite good at doing what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by principal

Incompetent? Perhaps you misunderstand their intent. Maybe they are quite good at doing what they are doing.

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Who, the media here in Ohio? They haven't asked a tough question yet. Just like they never ask tough questions to the sports team leaders in this state.
How else could the Bengals and Browns get away with murder for so long?
I appreciate the nice people in this state but sometimes leaders have to be called out.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

So at first when the models were radically off, they did underestimated the effectiveness of social distancing. They were adjusted based on actual data, but were still far off. Then again and again, but are still are off.

Why is this? There aren't many variables that go into an epidemiological model. The answer has been provided by numerous scientific studies released in the last few weeks:
1) The virus does not spread nearly as easy as we were initially led to believe. The majority of spread takes place when people are in confined spaces with low ventilation for prolonged periods - think subways, elevators, hospital rooms, old/poorly ventilated work spaces, and housing. The virus isn't lurking on items at grocery stores or blowing in the air outside.
2) The majority of the cases are minor or asymptomatic - so it's far less deadly. Some estimates have the infection fatality rate comparable to the flu, except for the vulnerable.

Until these findings are reflected in forecast models, they will continue to be off, and so will our policy.

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This

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Originally Posted by principal

Incompetent? Perhaps you misunderstand their intent. Maybe they are quite good at doing what they are doing.

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I see what you said there. Well said.

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Originally Posted by xu82

I obviously can’t speak for the “average person”, but I think the models just sucked. Period. Whether incompetence or to scare us into behaving. Sadly, we have too many fools surrounding us.

Still, I think being responsible about wearing a mask at the grocery store and avoiding lining up 3 deep at the bar for happy hour make sense.

Encouraging news about maybe a treatment and possibly a vaccine lately, so let’s pray for the best so we can bounce back.

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Well put. I agree with virtually all of these statements.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

Seems rough, but also probably necessary. There should be some sort of process for people in vulnerable categories to seek an exception, though.

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Also agree. You will have a lot of people using the "I'm risking my life by going to work" argument, but a lot of people (Grocery store workers for example) have been working the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

So at first when the models were radically off, they did underestimated the effectiveness of social distancing. They were adjusted based on actual data, but were still far off. Then again and again, but are still are off.

Why is this? There aren't many variables that go into an epidemiological model. The answer has been provided by numerous scientific studies released in the last few weeks:
1) The virus does not spread nearly as easy as we were initially led to believe. The majority of spread takes place when people are in confined spaces with low ventilation for prolonged periods - think subways, elevators, hospital rooms, old/poorly ventilated work spaces, and housing. The virus isn't lurking on items at grocery stores or blowing in the air outside.
2) The majority of the cases are minor or asymptomatic - so it's far less deadly. Some estimates have the infection fatality rate comparable to the flu, except for the vulnerable.

Until these findings are reflected in forecast models, they will continue to be off, and so will our policy.

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It seems like it might be more about #2 at this point vs #1, particularly based on some of the results from antibody testing we have seen. Which would be a good thing. We are at the point where we need to find a way to open things back up, even if cautiously.

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Originally Posted by muskiefan82

I see what you said there. Well said.

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Have you ever read John Taylor Gatto on the state of education in the US? He makes the same point. The education system in this county isn't failing, it is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing. In addition, I would argue that the fear-based reaction to this virus is evidence of his claim.

I saw some reports of infrastructure work being done in some European cities during this time...I guess around bike lanes, pedestrian street creations, etc.
I wonder if our habits will change at all, especially in the denser urban environments after this time of low auto usage.

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Originally Posted by principal

Incompetent? Perhaps you misunderstand their intent. Maybe they are quite good at doing what they are doing.

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And, I'm sorry. I missed the message in this post. My apologies. Well done.

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Originally Posted by paulxu

I wonder if our habits will change at all, especially in the denser urban environments after this time of low auto usage.

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I wonder if people will look to leave denser urban environments for places more like....Wichita. For the first time ever, people who live in NYC and Boston are jealous of me. Woo hoo!

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

I wonder if people will look to leave denser urban environments for places more like....Wichita. For the first time ever, people who live in NYC and Boston are jealous of me. Woo hoo!

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And now that people can't get haircuts, people are jealous of me!!

"They used to mock me....Now they want to BE me!!"

Today’s Reality Check for Ohio:
Model Projection of new Cases per Day (Mitigated) 2,000 on April 17. (Projected for yesterday 4/29 shows 1,163 per OSU model, 1,092 for 4/30)
1. Today's Actual new reported Cases: 724- less than the model which has never been reached despite more testing.
Highest Daily Total Increase in cases since report began on 3/9: 1380- Monday 4/20 with 56 probable/assumed- A LOT from the Marion County prison. Never anywhere NEAR the projected peak. NEVER
2. Actual TOTAL Hospitalizations: 3,533 (up only 112 from yesterday) since reporting began over a month ago. Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after all that Testing over a week ago?
3. Actual TOTAL ICU admits: 1,035 since reporting began a month and a half ago (up only 21 from yesterday.) Never any overrun.
Where are the Marion County cases that were supposed to swamp after Testing??
4. New Deaths today: 38 to 975 total. .
Total Ohio Hospital Beds: 34,000
Total Ohio ICU Beds:2500
Ohio Population; 11.7 million

I think were just about out of gas here. DeWine won't change strategy despite the low hospitalization and ICU numbers
Meanwhile, the unemployment filings Just keep going up.,More testing= more reported cases but not hospitalizations & ICU. #BrokenRecord

DeWine has an 83% approval rate. Best in the Nation among Governors. Only hard core Trumpsters dislike him.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/...poll-says.html

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Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee

DeWine has an 83% approval rate. Best in the Nation among Governors. Only hard core Trumpsters dislike him.

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/...poll-says.html

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I like DeWine but we will see what his approval rating is a year from now. I am sure the next Democrat that runs against him will blast him. I wonder what the Governor of Ky’s rating is. That guy is off his rocker. He refuses to open most businesses because he has 240 deaths of mostly people are who old and not in good health. KY has around 100 overdose deaths a month. Maybe he should attack that problem with the same energy. Or maybe health overall, since KY also leads the country in cancer and heart related deaths.

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

I think were just about out of gas here. DeWine won't change strategy despite the low hospitalization and ICU numbers
Meanwhile, the unemployment filings Just keep going up.,More testing= more reported cases but not hospitalizations & ICU. #BrokenRecord

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How about a weekly update to save us all from the #BrokenRecord? :)
Is it really crazy to think that all the following can be true: the mitigation has helped immensely; masks in public/hand hygiene slows this down; models based on something without precedent are faulty?
Erring on the side of caution in dealing with a virus that has caused large amounts of fatalities as well as some really weird shit we have never seen is not something I would prefer anyone take lightly. This was published yesterday which reiterates the magnitude of this virus. It goes beyond hospitalizations and ICU admissions. When more people are exposed to this, more people will die. I don’t disagree with opening things up at all and agree it’s necessary. But saying that this is a sham is a mistake IMO.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

I like DeWine but we will see what his approval rating is a year from now. I am sure the next Democrat that runs against him will blast him.

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Send this to the Old Takes Exposed files.... hard to lose with a large approval rating. I didn’t vote for him the first go around and it will take a lot to happen for me to not vote for him if he decides to run again.

Dewine released his new order in the dead of night extending this shit another month.

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Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee

DeWine has an 83% approval rate. (ad populum) Best in the Nation among Governors. Only hard core Trumpsters dislike him. (ad hominem)

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/...poll-says.html

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Did they stop teaching logic at X?

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Originally Posted by Juice

Dewine released his new order in the dead of night extending this shit another month.

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Saw his shadow perhaps?