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  1. #61
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickgyp View Post
    The old football stadium was aesthetic enough but basically not much more than concrete with a center area for refreshments and a mens restroom both in the east side stands. The urinal was essentially just one long trough as I recall. Certainly nothing fancy. I wonder what the cost would be to build say a 7, 500 seat replica as in bare-bones but of course with modern updates of the press box, restrooms, etc.. Not sure any more would be needed. Even when I attended football games, the 15,000 seat capacity never seemed fully utilized. 7,500 for PFL would be more than enough I think.
    7500 fans per game would lead the PFL in attendance by about 2000 fans.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  2. #62
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
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    The PFL is practically D3 football. Technically it's D1, but practically it's D3. In every aspect. It's non-scholarship, it exists primarily to boost male enrollment and draw tuition paying students that otherwise wouldn't be there, and the level of play is...well...less than what it is at FBS and FCS scholarship programs.

    I actually have appreciation for the PFL and what it is. In some ways it's actually kind of refreshing to see football in this format where it is so stripped down. There is a complete absence of pomp and crap that surrounds big time college athletics and it's just two colleges playing against each other. I'm not saying I have an issue with big time football, but I am saying that I do think it's kind of cool that football also exists at this level.

    If Xavier's plan was to start a football program, and tap into the GCL schools, and high level programs like Saint X, Trinity, Ben Davis, and private/catholic schools in Pittsburgh, and schools in Philly, and schools in Chicago, and schools in Cleveland, and try to put together a highly competitive FCS level program (which there really aren't any catholic universities in this area that have one of those), and try to join the MVFC and be competitive right out of the gate, then a $20 million style stadium would make sense.

    If Xavier's plan is to be a long term member of the PFL, they don't need to do any of that. They really don't. Hell, they could simply expand the capacity of the soccer stadium that's already there and that would be more than enough. If they're joining the PFL, they are essentially starting and running a D3 program. No one at that level has, or needs, a stadium that would cost as much as what they've projected.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  3. #63
    Supporting Member noteggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
    You can spend a couple bucks on a book of matches, set Welcome Stadium on fire, and it would end up being a vast improvement.

    I didn't realize Welcome Stadium even belonged to UD. I thought it was a public stadium that was owned and operated by the county that Dayton simply used for its football games. That place is such a shit hole that calling it a shit hole may actually be a compliment. I think my love for old and dumpy venues and stadiums is well documented, but even I think Welcome Stadium is too much of a dump. It's one thing to be an old dump with a lot of history and personality to the place. Welcome Stadium is just a straight up dump.
    Correct on the ownership of Welcome Stadium. It is owned by the Board of Education in Dayton. A lot of HS events use the stadium. FWIW, think the last renovations were made from the donations made by Kettering hospital.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by XUGRAD80 View Post
    Yeah I wasn’t really being that serious about the Texas HS stadium, it’s a different world there. But the $15 million proposal for a 5,000 seat stadium in Blue Ash isn’t that far off the $20 million the AD is talking about.

    We really don’t know what all X wants the stadium to be used for. If i want to use it for more than football, say concerts, graduations, rentals to high schools, etc., maybe the figure given is what that will take to build a facility like they want. I’d like to see a construction proposal and what the usage plans are before judging the price tag.

    U of Dayton is planning to spend $11 million just on RENOVATIONS for their Welcome Stadium.
    Wasn't Welcome Stadium a gift to VD from the City ?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
    The PFL is practically D3 football. Technically it's D1, but practically it's D3. In every aspect. It's non-scholarship, it exists primarily to boost male enrollment and draw tuition paying students that otherwise wouldn't be there, and the level of play is...well...less than what it is at FBS and FCS scholarship programs.

    I actually have appreciation for the PFL and what it is. In some ways it's actually kind of refreshing to see football in this format where it is so stripped down. There is a complete absence of pomp and crap that surrounds big time college athletics and it's just two colleges playing against each other. I'm not saying I have an issue with big time football, but I am saying that I do think it's kind of cool that football also exists at this level.

    If Xavier's plan was to start a football program, and tap into the GCL schools, and high level programs like Saint X, Trinity, Ben Davis, and private/catholic schools in Pittsburgh, and schools in Philly, and schools in Chicago, and schools in Cleveland, and try to put together a highly competitive FCS level program (which there really aren't any catholic universities in this area that have one of those), and try to join the MVFC and be competitive right out of the gate, then a $20 million style stadium would make sense.

    If Xavier's plan is to be a long term member of the PFL, they don't need to do any of that. They really don't. Hell, they could simply expand the capacity of the soccer stadium that's already there and that would be more than enough. If they're joining the PFL, they are essentially starting and running a D3 program. No one at that level has, or needs, a stadium that would cost as much as what they've projected.
    X would probably have to post bail to get kids from Ben Davis. Going to a game there is like visiting a prison.

  6. #66
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTG View Post
    Wasn't Welcome Stadium a gift to VD from the City ?
    A GIFT?? THAT place??

    HA!!! Some gift!!!
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  7. #67
    Supporting Member XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    It doesn’t really matter who owns Welcome Stadium. The point is that RENOVATIONS alone are going to be $11 million. If you consider that just renovating a multi use stadium like that is going to be that much, then $20 million to BUILD a NEW stadium doesn’t seem like too much to me. Or when you consider that the Blue Ash stadium for 5,000 seats is projected to coast $15 million, then once again $20 Million doesn’t seem to out of line to me.

    The key question as I see it is……what does X plan to use the stadium for? Just to take care of the football team that is playing non-scholarship level ball? Or for much more? Cintas is rented out and used for a lot more things than just Xavier University sports. I’d expect that X would have similar plans for any football stadium that they might build. If so, they would need to plan and build it for those additional usages.

  8. #68
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XUGRAD80 View Post
    It doesn’t really matter who owns Welcome Stadium. The point is that RENOVATIONS alone are going to be $11 million. If you consider that just renovating a multi use stadium like that is going to be that much, then $20 million to BUILD a NEW stadium doesn’t seem like too much to me. Or when you consider that the Blue Ash stadium for 5,000 seats is projected to coast $15 million, then once again $20 Million doesn’t seem to out of line to me.

    The key question as I see it is……what does X plan to use the stadium for? Just to take care of the football team that is playing non-scholarship level ball? Or for much more? Cintas is rented out and used for a lot more things than just Xavier University sports. I’d expect that X would have similar plans for any football stadium that they might build. If so, they would need to plan and build it for those additional usages.
    That's exactly how I see it. The Xavier leadership team is too sharp to go into this with blinders on. They're envisioning a new component to campus that will be capable of supporting more than just a half dozen or so home football games per year for a non-scholarship football team.

    The catalyst is FOOTBALL. So, it's fair that we're focusing here on football and what all this means or entails. In order to have gotten to this point - this point being Greg Christopher going to the media with a number - they would have had to determine that mens' football at Xavier will achieve certain desirable objectives for the University.

    Now the issue is Xavier's set of circumstances. We had to tear down a beautiful football stadium from the past because it was literally crumbling. Unfortunately, even had Corcoran been salvageable, it probably would not have worked in today's environment due to its lack of parking/access. So, we have to build one.

    But why just do that for only football? Think about how much stronger of a recruiting tool Men's Soccer, Women's Soccer, and LaCrosse will have if they can show-off a shiny new stadium for their athletes.

    Hindsight is easy, but imagine if they had made all these decisions at the same time:

    1. Bring back football.
    2. New stadium in the area of the old Kroger shopping center.
    3. Incorporate a new champion's center next to it.

    All Xavier primary athletic facilities located in one area, save for baseball and the "country club" sports.

    Either way, a nice stadium up there to serve multiple purposes can be a very good thing. The Champion's Center keeps doing its thing down on Victory Parkway, while the kids show up at the new facility for actual competitions.

    No "wide right"; no "wide left"; put the damn thing through the middle of the uprights. Make this happen so long as it truly adds to Xavier in an overall positive fashion.
    X A V I E R

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by xudash View Post
    That's exactly how I see it. The Xavier leadership team is too sharp to go into this with blinders on. They're envisioning a new component to campus that will be capable of supporting more than just a half dozen or so home football games per year for a non-scholarship football team.

    The catalyst is FOOTBALL. So, it's fair that we're focusing here on football and what all this means or entails. In order to have gotten to this point - this point being Greg Christopher going to the media with a number - they would have had to determine that mens' football at Xavier will achieve certain desirable objectives for the University.

    Now the issue is Xavier's set of circumstances. We had to tear down a beautiful football stadium from the past because it was literally crumbling. Unfortunately, even had Corcoran been salvageable, it probably would not have worked in today's environment due to its lack of parking/access. So, we have to build one.

    But why just do that for only football? Think about how much stronger of a recruiting tool Men's Soccer, Women's Soccer, and LaCrosse will have if they can show-off a shiny new stadium for their athletes.

    Hindsight is easy, but imagine if they had made all these decisions at the same time:

    1. Bring back football.
    2. New stadium in the area of the old Kroger shopping center.
    3. Incorporate a new champion's center next to it.

    All Xavier primary athletic facilities located in one area, save for baseball and the "country club" sports.

    Either way, a nice stadium up there to serve multiple purposes can be a very good thing. The Champion's Center keeps doing its thing down on Victory Parkway, while the kids show up at the new facility for actual competitions.

    No "wide right"; no "wide left"; put the damn thing through the middle of the uprights. Make this happen so long as it truly adds to Xavier in an overall positive fashion.
    Dash: Interesting take on things this alternative use view. The Cincinnati Rollergirls use Cintas for roller derby. I must confess it has been a long time since I watched Joanie Weston elbow opponents for the Bay Bombers on television; and I have no idea how many people actually watch the locals skate on the oval. But it must be a financial windfall for Xavier…

    Just think that if the LA Coliseum can host NASCAR then certainly a new Xavier stadium could host events that would put the Lawrenceburg Speedway out of business. Just don’t get me going on putting Edgewater Park out of business as drag races could be problematic…

  10. #70
    Supporting Member D-West & PO-Z's Avatar
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    It does seem a little odd though that its, yes we want to bring fooball back, we think it will help increase male enrollment and enrollment in general, and we could do that while building a simple stadium at much less than $20 million (supposedly given what others have done) but we only want to build a more expensive stadium that can be more multi purpose other than football, and if we don't get the $20 million donated to do so, then the whole football plan, and subsequent increasing of male enrollment is scrapped.

    It seems to me, the desire to have a more expensive multi purpose stadium, is putting the whole prospects of adding football at risk.

    It seems the priority isn't really on adding football and whatever that may bring. Which is fine, but different than what I feel was originally the plan or goal or whatever. Or at least what we thought it was.
    "I’m willing to sacrifice everything for this team. I’m going to dive for every loose ball, close out harder on every shot, block out for every rebound. I’m going to play harder than I’ve ever played. And I need you all to follow me." -MB '17

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