Covid-19

Lloyd Braun · 08-18-2021, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Yes, it was done by Carnegie Mellon U and is in preprint: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....full.pdf+html
I find it interesting that of all the things I threw against the wall in post 5626, this little add on is the one garnering the discussion… ��

The survey also spans 4 months from January (vaccine rollout) to May (well into the rollout). I’m sure there are a lot of people that hold the same stance as they did in January of this year but I know a LOT of people, typically well educated, that have changed their stance in a couple months. Just look at this thread as proof. Opinions change over time.

I will take a stab at discussing the rest of your post, but I’m not sure it will be interesting…

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

First bold: I assume you refer to the argument that the more society coerces, the more recalcitrant the unvaxxed become? If so, this is human nature. It amounts to nothing more than bullying, and many refuse to be bullied. People are motivated in different ways, and this is a poor tactic. By the way, did you know the largest unvaxxed educational group is people with PhD's?

Second bold: This is absolutely not a "once in a lifetime" pandemic. Many of us on this board are old enough to remember small pox: twice as contagious and nearly 100x as deadly as COVID-19. There are also some folks alive who lived through the polio epidemic: roughly as contagious as small pox, but even more deadly. It also comes with the added issue of paralysis for many. Kind of makes "long COVID" seem trivial. The fact that this "once in a lifetime pandemic" line is circulating shows just how much misinformation is out there. Real misinformation, not just the kind that contradicts a narrative.

Third bold: neither here nor there to the argument, but there really is no "if" about it. The forensics point that direction, and the "Fauci emails" acknowledged it.

First bolded respond to bolded: recent vaccination rates have been on the increase, not decrease in spite of negativity surrounding the unvaccinated. Human nature is to survive, and when things start to hit close to home the reaction is to do what’s best for survival. Unfortunately for the 1,000 people today that ship has sailed but as time goes on and people see that the vaccines are safe and effective the hesitancy goes away. I think the true “never jabbers” are in a very small minority.

Second bold about bolded comment: do you remember smallpox? I don’t as I want alive in the 1950s. So for the majority of people it has been once in a lifetime.

Third bolded response to bold: why can’t we demand action and investigation into finding out the origins of the virus while also finding a way to treat it? Everything is an “if” with covid but I would be curious to see what data confirms it was from a lab and eliminates the “if”.

Edit: here is a pretty reasonable take on origins of the virus. I still believe animal spillover is likeliest scenario from what I’ve read. I have yet to see conclusive the forensic evidence that points to lab origin.

XU_Lou · 08-19-2021, 09:01 AM

A pandemic of the unvaccinated? That's the current lie/fear-mongering narrative. Don't tell that to the people of Massachusetts:

* 23% of all cases this past week were among "fully vaccinated Massachusetts residents"

* 32% of all deaths this past week were among "fully vaccinated Massachusetts residents"

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...eaths/2469631/

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local...-died/2464309/

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/co...onse-reporting

**GoMuskies** · 08-19-2021, 09:04 AM

I see Mass is 65% fully vaccinated. So if only 23% of cases and 32% of deaths were from the fully vaccinated, what a great advertisement for vaccines!

XU_Lou · 08-19-2021, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

I see Mass is 65% fully vaccinated. So if only 23% of cases and 32% of deaths were from the fully vaccinated, what a great advertisement for vaccines!

Shouldn't it be zero? Isn't that you were led to believe ? My guess is that nearly everyone who got the vax didn't expect there was a chance they could get Covid, let alone die. No, those stats are horrible, and will only get worse - as we've seen in Israel.

**GoMuskies** · 08-19-2021, 09:13 AM

They could be better, but it's far from horrible. Much worse for the 35% not fully vaccinated who are 77% of cases and 68% of deaths!

XU_Lou · 08-19-2021, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

They could be better, but it's far from horrible. Much worse for the 35% not fully vaccinated who are 77% of cases and 68% of deaths!

Why do you think you're now being asked to get a third vax?

**GoMuskies** · 08-19-2021, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by XU_Lou

Why do you think you're now being asked to get a third vax?

Because the effectiveness of the first one wanes over time. I'm in no hurry to get vax #3, though. Granted, I wasn't in a big hurry to get vax #1/#2, either, but ended up getting them the first day because they were available and probably going to waste otherwise. if you want to make a case about global vaccine equity with respect to boosters, I'm all ears, because I think that one's got merit.

XU_Lou · 08-19-2021, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

Because the effectiveness of the first one wanes over time. I'm in no hurry to get vax #3, though. Granted, I wasn't in a big hurry to get vax #1/#2, either, but ended up getting them the first day because they were available and probably going to waste otherwise. if you want to make a case about global vaccine equity with respect to boosters, I'm all ears, because I think that one's got merit.

Actually, my larger point was to focus on the lie that this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated". We keep hearing that 99% of cases, hospitalizations, deaths are among the unvaccinated. Obviously, this isn't true....