Covid-19

[Strange Brew]

Sure. It currently is not listed under approved gene therapy products.

There still may be mRNA products that could blur the lines on gene therapy, such as those that suppress a defective gene (some cancer cells). Again I wouldn’t consider them gene therapy since they don’t enter the nucleus and alter current genes, however they do alter the current gene’s ability to malfunction.

The mRNA vaccine enters cytoplasm with about 200,00 other mRNA pieces that ask the cell to carry out some sort function. When it spits out a protein that our body creates an immune response that is a different category of medicine. Since these vaccines didn’t exist for FDA approval at the time of the link provided there is no need to reclassify something that has not been classified. The technology had a classification perhaps in a broad sense, which is not a specific classification.

Is it listed under another approved category? It is my understanding it is approved for emergency use as an mRNA and in 2018 the category was gene therapy. The rest is your opinion and is as much mid-info as anything else.

[Muskie in dayton]

It is beginning to look like this is not a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-emerg...170225381.html

“The data bolsters emerging evidence that vaccinated people have high viral loads and may transmit the Delta variant as easily as those who are unvaccinated.”

This just struck me - is it possible that the delta variant is a product of the vaccinated? Like antibiotic-resistant bacteria, could the virus evolve from the vaccine-resistant viruses?

Just a reminder, if the vaccinated can still get and transmit the virus, vaccines will not make it go away.

Edit: just saw this was addressed in Lou’s post above.

[principal]

This just struck me - is it possible that the delta variant is a product of the vaccinated? Like antibiotic-resistant bacteria, could the virus evolve from the vaccine-resistant viruses?

If the vaccinated can still get and transmit the virus, vaccines will not make it go away.

Some have suggested exactly that, of course if the suggestions are coming from one of the unapproved sources they will be dismissed out of hand. I don’t know enough to have an opinion on it, I don’t think anyone does…but that’s the thing, most seem to have their minds made up and there is no real way to know some of these things for certain at this point, more time is needed to test this *brand new* injection. It has all moved way, way too fast.

Here is another article that states the same thing as above in regards to the fully vaccinated transmitting COVID *just as easily* as the unvaccinated. This is coming from the same government officials who have and who still are claiming this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. They are contradicting themselves

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cdc-covid...170000960.html

“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a study on Friday which suggests that fully vaccinated people can transmit the Delta variant of the coronavirus just as easily as the unvaccinated - a find that may change the calculus of what's safe for vaccinated people to do, now that the Delta variant is responsible for more than 80% of US cases.”

How can it simultaneously be said that the unvaccinated are to blame for the increased cases when the evidence suggests the vaccinated can transmit it “just as easily” as the unvaccinated? It does no good to point out that the unvaccinated are more likely to be seriously ill or die, because that truly is a personal decision.

For those on this board who are blaming the unvaccinated for the increase in cases, what do you make of this news?

[Lloyd Braun]

This just struck me - is it possible that the delta variant is a product of the vaccinated? Like antibiotic-resistant bacteria, could the virus evolve from the vaccine-resistant viruses?

Just a reminder, if the vaccinated can still get and transmit the virus, vaccines will not make it go away.

Edit: just saw this was addressed in Lou’s post above.

I don’t know one way or another but the delta variant originated in India in February before anyone in India was fully vaccinated. India’s vaccination rate was not quick to rise either and only 7% are fully vaccinated as of today. Tough to have a cause and effect there… seems like a stretch to me. Variants will continue to pop up as long as there are perpetually circulating cases.

[Lloyd Braun]

How can it simultaneously be said that the unvaccinated are to blame for the increased cases when the evidence suggests the vaccinated can transmit it “just as easily” as the unvaccinated? It does no good to point out that the unvaccinated are more likely to be seriously ill or die, because that truly is a personal decision.

Question: insurances have higher premiums for those that smoke. Do you think that is ok? Should those that are unvaccinated have higher premiums?

[xukeith]

Question: insurances have higher premiums for those that smoke. Do you think that is ok? Should those that are unvaccinated have higher premiums?

Damn straight

[xuwillie]

Damn straight

And I guess why not have everyone get the flu shot as well

[principal]

Question: insurances have higher premiums for those that smoke. Do you think that is ok? Should those that are unvaccinated have higher premiums?

I am asking how, if it turns out to be the case that the vaccinated and unvaccinated spread the virus at the same or a similar rate, the unvaccinated can be blamed for spreading the virus? Please address this question.

Now, if we are discussing insurance premiums, then their might be an argument that the unvaccinated, if they are creating more hospital expense and early deaths, even if only for themselves, should pay higher insurance premiums. But this is quite different from blaming them for the spread, which is what is under discussion.

But to answer your question with a series of questionsÂ…

Question: If it turns out the vaccine causes long term health issues, do we increase premiums for those who rushed in to get the vaccine before enough data was available? Or is this a one way street?

Question: Given most people who get COVID recover fully, so we only increase insurance premiums on those who go to the hospital?

Question: Should we up charge the obese given obesity has been demonstrated to be a highly correlated factor in deaths?

Question: It is a small sample size but supported by several studies, of those I know personally who have required hospitalization or have died from COVID, all of them where deficient in the vitamins known to strengthen the immune system (vitamin C, D, Zinc, etc). Do we increase premiums for those who personally choose to eat poorly? Or are we only going to increase premiums for those who donÂ’t follow the single, narrow-minded recommendation to get an injection of a brand new, largely untested (relative to all past precedence for a vaccine) injection?

Question: Where does this thinking end? What about the flu shot? What about the booster? What about the next injection? Fauci is asking Congress for 20 billion per year to begin developing vaccines for the next potential pandemic. Should we all be prepared to get the next experimental injection or be ready to pay higher insurance premiums? Being forced to inject experimental drugs for a disease that causes harsh flu symptoms or less for lost people is an extreme suggestion.

This country and its medical establishment is obsessed with drugs and surgery. What should be the last option in many, many instances, is instead the first and default option. The collective mindset about vaccinations makes this abundantly clear. After quite a bit of reading I believe one of the biggest causes of the struggles in the US with COVID, compared to other nations, is the overall health of our population. We can blame Trump for not having a better plan of action, but nothing was going to mitigate a nation of unhealthy people obsessed with McDonald’s, Applebee’s, and Lord forgive me for saying it, Chick-fil-A. I believe the masking, social distancing, sterilizing, and locking down have done far less for those who practiced these things than eating healthy and taking supplements helped those who made choices to be healthy. Everything I’ve read (I read mostly mainstream news, a little bit of alternative media, and a some natural health news) and everything I’ve witnessed personally supports this conclusion. Of course “eat better, exercise, take personal responsibility” does not make mega corps and patent holders rich and politicians more powerful, so we don’t hear a lot about that on CNN or Fox News, the two opposite ends of the Hegelian Dialectic.

Principal

[principal]

And I guess why not have everyone get the flu shot as well

And on and on, ad infinitum. Fauci wants billions each year to begin developing experimental drugs for the next possible pandemic:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/25/h...-vaccines.html

It looks like vaccinations are going to be a perpetual money maker going forward. The free shots are not free, they will eventually be paid for by raised taxes. It does not matter whether taxes are raised on the rich or the poor. If on the poor, then the poor pay the taxes. If on the rich, who control the production of all of the goods and services used by everyone else, then they just raise prices on the poor, so the poor pay anyway! It is a grand system.

Principal

[principal]

The “logic” in this article is headache inducing:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/07/30/h...mpression=true

Principal