Politics Thread

**Masterofreality** · 06-07-2020, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

I don’t know if this happened recently but I know I just learned it recently, but Sam Dubose’s killer got a 300,000+ settlement from UC. Unreal.

Know what's unreal? Up here in the Cuyahoga Socialist State, the clueless and Lack-Of-Oversight Mother of Tamir Rice was given $8 million dollars from *somewhere* in the allegedly tight Cleveland city budget for the police shooting of Rice. Samaria Rice didn't have any control over her son, but she gets a lifetime income payment. Consider:

A) 12 year old Tamir was in a city park in a hoodie and hat that semi-shielded his face. So much so that the 911 caller who was threatened by Rice told the dispatcher that the guy threatening him was 20.
B) Rice had taken a toy gun, an "airsoft pellet" gun and removed the "toy markings" (orange markings) making it look like a real weapon.
C) Rice was brandishing the weapon about toward numerous passers-by until one called 911.
D) When Cleveland Police arrived, and this is on a close by surveillance tape, the first move Rice made was to point the "weapon" at the police car and the cop who was getting out. Remember that the cops had been told that 1) A 20 year old guy had a gun, and B) He was threatening people.
E) A Grand Jury refused to indict the cop Timothy Loehman.

So what were the cops to do?

Samaria Rice just let her kid run wild and act like a sniper in a park, yet she gets $8 mill? But JUSTICE!!!!!!!.... Bullcrap.

**Muskie in dayton** · 06-07-2020, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

1. You misunderstood, or I should have been more clear, that when they know who did it and caught they are always put to justice. No one gets off when murdering a cop. We have seen numerous cops get off when murdering citizens, even when charged that is only half (maybe even less) of the battle in a lot of those scenarios.

2. No I don’t see a problem with holding police officers to a higher standards than criminals and murders. You do? Are you saying because those police officers were shot at and some killer that gives a police officer in Buffalo the right to assault the citizens of Buffalo?

Again when a criminal commits a crime or murders and cop or a citizen they are put to justice (when caught obviously). They got to jail for life or a very long time. Unfortunately too many times when an officer murders someone or assaults someone they are sent home on paid administrative leave instead of to jail. A lot of times the taxpayers end up with big settlements to the aggrieved and the police officer continues working.

I don’t know if this happened recently but I know I just learned it recently, but Sam Dubose’s killer got a 300,000+ settlement from UC. Unreal.

The Buffalo cops were ordered to clear the square - it was their job. Here's what it comes down to. I don't want any cop to lose their life in the line of duty. It saddens me greatly when this happens. I watched Kaia Grant's (Springdale cop that some asshole ran over, if you are not familiar) funeral in it's entirety, and cried. Why do I care so much? Maybe it's because I have a very dear friend that risks his life in this line duty as a cop. Maybe it's because I feel so bad someone lost their life so young, by just doing their job. Maybe it's because I value and respect what they do - a cop may have saved my life.

As to Buffalo, I don't want cops put into situations they cannot defend themselves because they have to make a split second decision to defend themselves or not. On one hand if you're wrong, you have criminal charges. On the other hand if you're wrong, your dead. I don't want groups of people, media, or anyone feeling like they have free reign on disrespecting their profession and playing Monday morning quarterback on their every move. Cops have to make split second decision like this because people are trying to kill them. For that reason I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Minneapolis: No doubt. Buffalo: a lot of doubt. It is a travesty they are facing charges for doing their job.

**Muskie in dayton** · 06-07-2020, 10:40 PM

How about a new topic. Does anyone find it coincidence that in one day, Bush, Romney and Powell - three prominent Republicans - all come out and endorse Biden? Could this be the groundwork for a Republican convention coup? How great would that be...

**D-West & PO-Z** · 06-07-2020, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Know what's unreal? Up here in the Cuyahoga Socialist State, the clueless and Lack-Of-Oversight Mother of Tamir Rice was given $8 million dollars from *somewhere* in the allegedly tight Cleveland city budget for the police shooting of Rice. Samaria Rice didn't have any control over her son, but she gets a lifetime income payment. Consider:

A) 12 year old Tamir was in a city park in a hoodie and hat that semi-shielded his face. So much so that the 911 caller who was threatened by Rice told the dispatcher that the guy threatening him was 20.
B) Rice had taken a toy gun, an "airsoft pellet" gun and removed the "toy markings" (orange markings) making it look like a real weapon.
C) Rice was brandishing the weapon about toward numerous passers-by until one called 911.
D) When Cleveland Police arrived, and this is on a close by surveillance tape, the first move Rice made was to point the "weapon" at the police car and the cop who was getting out. Remember that the cops had been told that 1) A 20 year old guy had a gun, and B) He was threatening people.
E) A Grand Jury refused to indict the cop Timothy Loehman.

So what were the cops to do?

Samaria Rice just let her kid run wild and act like a sniper in a park, yet she gets $8 mill? But JUSTICE!!!!!!!.... Bullcrap.

This post is riddled with inaccuracies MOR. From what the 911 caller said down to the settlement amount.

1. It was 3:30pm and he was 12 year old in a park. Are you suggesting a 12 year old shouldn’t be unsupervised in a park at 3:30pm?

2. The 911 caller told the dispatcher that he was “probably a juvenile” (not 20 like you assert) and the gun was “probably fake”. The police did not get this information from the dispatcher. Not their fault but a huge fault of the dispatcher that is one of the first cluster fucks by a city employee.

3. The cop who shot him should have never been hired in the first place. He resigned (before he could be fired) from his previous job with another police department. Cleveland didn’t dye their due diligence. Let’s see was his former boss had to say about him :

"He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal.”
"I do not believe Ptl. Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment.”
“It appears from the pattern developing within our short time frame with Ptl. Loehmann that he often feels that when told to do something, that those instructions are optional.”
“He lacked the emotional stability to be a police officer.”
"I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies.”

4. The cop driving for whatever reason chose to drive with feet of Tamir rice. He was later disciplined for this egregious error:
“Garmback's disciplinary letter says he erred when he drove too close to Tamir when responding to what Garmback believed to be an armed suspect.“

5. The cop states he yelled three times for Tamir to get his hands up. Yet he shot within 2 seconds of pulling up. Your assertion that Tamir pointed the gun at the police officer getting out is wrong. He wouldn’t and didn’t have time to do that. The video isn’t great but it does appear his hand is coming out of his pocket either of his pants or hoodie pocket. To say he was pointing the gun is false though.

6. Rice did not remove the orange marking at the tip of the gun. It was not there but the gun was not his and he did not remove it. You say it asserting he did it as some sort of action that should further justify him being shot but he didn’t even do it. Obviously it’s unfortunate though that it wasn’t on there as people in the park would have known it was fake and maybe the guy calling 911 wouldn’t have called or would have been able to say it’s definitely fake instead of probably which again the dispatcher did not communicate to police.

7. More evidence of failure in general by the Cleveland police dept: “The shooting fit into a broader history of dysfunction at the Cleveland Division of Police. Two weeks after Tamir’s death, the Justice Department released a scathing report accusing the department of a pattern of excessive force for which officers were rarely disciplined, and pressed the department to accept a federal monitor. Just a year before, in 2013, an investigation by the state attorney general found “systemic failure” in the department.
It also highlighted shortcomings in the department’s vetting process for recruits. Police records show that Officer Loehmann was hired without a review of his file at a previous department, where he resigned after suffering a “dangerous loss of composure” during firearms training.“

8. The settlement was for 6 million not 8 million.

Whether the police should have gone to trial is definitely not a sure thing and I’m not arguing they should have been indicted. They were obviously not give all the info by the 911 dispatcher That could have prevented this. It seems their department thinks they made several mistakes though. Those mistakes coupled with the 911 dispatchers egregious error and the fact the cop who did the shooting was essentially fired before he could ever get started with another dept and Cleveland didn’t even bother to look into that more than warrants compensation to his family.

**GoMuskies** · 06-07-2020, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

How about a new topic. Does anyone find it coincidence that in one day, Bush, Romney and Powell - three prominent Republicans - all come out and endorse Biden? Could this be the groundwork for a Republican convention coup? How great would that be...

I'm for it, but those guys are all out of favor with whatever the Republican party is right now.

Juice · 06-08-2020, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

How about a new topic. Does anyone find it coincidence that in one day, Bush, Romney and Powell - three prominent Republicans - all come out and endorse Biden? Could this be the groundwork for a Republican convention coup? How great would that be...

Bush is now denying the claim. Powell hasn't voted for a Republican president in what will be his 4th straight election.

Lloyd Braun · 06-08-2020, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

How about a new topic. Does anyone find it coincidence that in one day, Bush, Romney and Powell - three prominent Republicans - all come out and endorse Biden? Could this be the groundwork for a Republican convention coup? How great would that be...

How about a coup at both conventions? Best coup wins my vote.

**boozehound** · 06-08-2020, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

How about a new topic. Does anyone find it coincidence that in one day, Bush, Romney and Powell - three prominent Republicans - all come out and endorse Biden? Could this be the groundwork for a Republican convention coup? How great would that be...

I would certainly love that. Can we get another chance at Romney?