Politics Thread

[Xville]

Why, because McCain was white? Obama was fairly moderate relatively speaking. Contrary to what you watch on Fox News.

Yeah because McCain was white. Insert eyeroll here.

8 years of Obama caused extreme division in this country...if you need proof, look to trump being elected president and thus the reaction to that of democratic socialism candidates for house seats.

[Xville]

I guess I don’t remember that. Do you have examples?

I invite you to look up your own research if you want.

McCain was ridden hard in 08 due to his previous political voting in which he was against recognizing mlk day as a national holiday and voted against taking down the Confederate flag.

[boozehound]

So you dont remember 08 either...he was labeled a racist by the mainstream media and attacked as a person.

Yeah because McCain was white. Insert eyeroll here.

8 years of Obama caused extreme division in this country...if you need proof, look to trump being elected president and thus the reaction to that of democratic socialism candidates for house seats.

I keep hearing this argument. It generally lacks specificity, and comes off as a weird argument to me.

Why did 8 years of Obama cause extreme division? I don't think his rhetoric was not extremely divisive. How is Trump somehow Obama's fault? Is Obama responsible for people's reaction to his Presidency? He certainly could be condescending and preachy, but I don't think that justifies electing a shit show like Trump. There were at least 8 other GOP candidates that would have behaved like civilized and relatively intelligent human beings.

BTW in the interest of full disclosure - I voted for Obama in 2008 despite having been a fan of McCain for years prior to the election (Palin did it for me). I then voted for Romney in 2008, despite not thinking that Obama was terrible or did a terrible job. I'm pretty neutral on Obama in general. He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. Trump, however, is terrible. Nobody should be defending him.

[Caf]

Hating trump in itself is adversarial.

FWIW I'm registered an independent and I would assume that most of the country is pretty moderate. The problem with today's politics is that the right is becoming more and more right and the left is becoming more and more left. It does force you to pick a side because the moderate doesnt exist on either side at the moment. I truly believe that had McCain won in 08, we would not be as divided as we are now and these extreme politics would not be gaining such traction.

All explanations of our current polarity go back to the financial crisis. The tea party and occupy wall street which is now the Bernie Sanders crowd started in response to our handling of that.

Specifically relating to the Republican Party, a President named George Bush signed a massive bailout contradicting their small government stances for the second time in our nations history. This, and specifically the Rick Santelli rant on CNBC, gave birth to the Tea Party. The rest is history.

[Xville]

I keep hearing this argument. It generally lacks specificity, and comes off as a weird argument to me.

Why did 8 years of Obama cause extreme division? I don't think his rhetoric was not extremely divisive. How is Trump somehow Obama's fault? Is Obama responsible for people's reaction to his Presidency? He certainly could be condescending and preachy, but I don't think that justifies electing a shit show like Trump. There were at least 8 other GOP candidates that would have behaved like civilized and relatively intelligent human beings.

BTW in the interest of full disclosure - I voted for Obama in 2008 despite having been a fan of McCain for years prior to the election (Palin did it for me). I then voted for Romney in 2008, despite not thinking that Obama was terrible or did a terrible job. I'm pretty neutral on Obama in general. He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. Trump, however, is terrible. Nobody should be defending him.

I dont think it was necessarily oabamas fault but the way he handled things toward the latter years of his presidency caused friction not only between black and white but left vs right. I am speaking specifically regarding his handling of cop shootings and racial tensions. Trump played off of that and was able to rally a base that swarmed to the voting booths.

Btw I think trump is a terrible human being but hes not a terrible president at least I think that's hard to define yet.

[Xville]

All explanations of our current polarity go back to the financial crisis. The tea party and occupy wall street which is now the Bernie Sanders crowd started in response to our handling of that.

Specifically relating to the Republican Party, a President named George Bush signed a massive bailout contradicting their small government stances for the second time in our nations history. This, and specifically the Rick Santelli rant on CNBC, gave birth to the Tea Party. The rest is history.

I can get on board with this idea. I still believe though that had McCain won the presidency it would have quelled some of this polarity and trump definitely would not have been elected.

[boozehound]

I dont think it was necessarily oabamas fault but the way he handled things toward the latter years of his presidency caused friction not only between black and white but left vs right. I am speaking specifically regarding his handling of cop shootings and racial tensions. Trump played off of that and was able to rally a base that swarmed to the voting booths.

Btw I think trump is a terrible human being but hes not a terrible president at least I think that's hard to define yet.

I will agree with your first point. Strongly disagree with the second. This is a VERY dangerous point of view in my opinion. He has no decision making processes at all. The only thing he has done is cut taxes without a way to pay for it. That's great right now, but in the longer run I'm concerned about the budgetary impact. His foreign policy is disjointed. We likely won't know the ramifications of these types of things for years.

I actually think that Trump getting elected was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the (traditional) conservative ideology when given a 10 year time horizon. The Democrats hold the votes if they can get enough engagement, particularly from the low income crowd and young people. If they galvanize behind the Bernie Sanders wing of the party (which seems to be happening) and get enough engagement to get him elected AND turn House/Senate/either it's going to be bad news.

I was, and am, of the mindset that traditional conservative values were likely best preserved by a mediocre Hillary presidency while maintaining control of Congress until an actual conservative could be elected.

Trump followed by Sanders (or similar) would be a total f-ing disaster.

[GoMuskies]

I still believe though that had McCain won the presidency it would have quelled some of this polarity

You think the first serious black candidate for President losing to a ticket that included Sarah fucking Palin would have quelled some of the polarity in the country?

[Xville]

You think the first serious black candidate for President losing to a ticket that included Sarah fucking Palin would have quelled some of the polarity in the country?

Well, let me rephrase a bit...had McCain not chosen an effing moron for a running mate, I think he would have stood a very good chance at winning the presidency. If he had, yes I believe it would have quelled some of the polarity.

Obama had a chance to quell some of this polarity, but I think in the latter years of his presidency, he caused an even greater divide thru what i stated earlier.

[GoMuskies]

I do agree on Obama. I thought Obama was fine, but I think he was a missed opportunity, particularly on that front. Here was a guy who had lived both the black and white experience in America and was in a unique situation to bridge some of that racial divide. He decided to go a different direction, and that was disappointing (to me).