Politics Thread

[Caf]

Taxes, which again as I pointed out not everyone in this country pays...so if you are going to give "free" healthcare to everyone, it only makes sense that the more population, the more costs associated.

So the larger insurance pool wouldn't be enough by the amount of delinquent taxes or non-earners. Therefore, people who can already afford insurance will have to pay more. Is that what you're saying? Is that what you mean by "prices"?

[Xville]

So the larger insurance pool wouldn't be enough by the amount of delinquent taxes or non-earners. Therefore, people who can already afford insurance will have to pay more. Is that what you're saying? Is that what you mean by "prices"?

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...thers-n2505163

Admittedly, this is a far right conservative lean...however, there are studies within the article that are "unbiased."

[boozehound]

Thank you for outlining one of the many reasons the 2nd is in the Constitution.

Wait, what? That seems like an argument against the 2nd amendment, unless you are in support of the lower class overthrowing the government. It's not like the 2nd amendment only gives wealthy people the right to bear arms.

History is full of examples. It's essentially the life cycle of a society. The wealthy find ways to grow and protect their wealth at the expense of the lower classes until the lower classes eventually (and usually violently) revolt. There are typically two ways to prevent said revolt: (1) create a level of oppression that prevents the lower classes from rising up, or (2) keep the lower classes just happy enough that they don't want to risk what they have by revolting. Arming the proletariat seems like a way to hasten uprising if anything.

I'm not making a value judgement on this - I'm just saying it's human nature.

[boozehound]

Taxes, which again as I pointed out not everyone in this country pays...so if you are going to give "free" healthcare to everyone, it only makes sense that the more population, the more costs associated.

I have a good job with good benefits and I pay like $700 a month for health insurance for my family. The average American that carries health insurance could deal with a significant tax increase if they didn't have to pay insurance. People forget that we already have single payer for a significant portion of our medical expenses as a country - it's called Medicare. It kicks in when you are older and your likelihood of significant medical expenses are higher.

What would you say if I asked you to invest in a health insurance company that only covered people 65+? You would tell me I'm crazy, because the core definition of a risk pool is to have as many healthy people as possible paying in to offset the costs of the unhealthy. That's what Medicare is, and why it's so expensive - it doesn't have the benefit of younger, healthier people paying in to offset the costs of care for the elderly.

Single payer creates the largest possible risk pool, which should minimize costs across the network - it's fundamentally how insurance works. I do recognize the argument about the government administering healthcare as concerning, however I personally feel the benefits outweigh the risks. I also think that there is a tremendous disincentive to small business baked into our current healthcare system that is problematic.

[bjf123]

I know people love to cite the universal coverage a single payer system provides. I’ve read that in so of those countries , you can buy additional medical insurance to get service faster and get coverage for items the government run program doesn’t cover.

How long does it take to get an MRI in the US? If the weekend warriors among us tear an ACL playing softball on Saturday, we can probably get in to see a doctor on Monday or Tuesday and will have the MRI done within the week. Do the same thing in the UK or Canada and it could be months before you even see the first doctor. We’d never put up with that in the US. We want and expect everything now. A MAJOR cultural shift would be needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Caf]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...thers-n2505163

Admittedly, this is a far right conservative lean...however, there are studies within the article that are "unbiased."

The effectiveness of a government sponsored or single payer system would be dependent on the decrease of the underlying costs of care and drugs. The scale you're mentioning is not an actual issue, it already exists. Here's a "dirty little secret" for you. You're already paying for other people's healthcare in exorbitant hospital, doctors, and drug prices. The whole system is propped up on higher prices for those who have insurance and free access for those who don't. For example, hospitals have to care for people who don't have insurance and they offset that cost by charging you more.

I don't feel strongly about any solution. I am definitely not for the current system that leaves us paying for emergency care for others while allowing people like yourself to pretend they're only paying for what they get.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I know people love to cite the universal coverage a single payer system provides. I’ve read that in so of those countries , you can buy additional medical insurance to get service faster and get coverage for items the government run program doesn’t cover.

How long does it take to get an MRI in the US? If the weekend warriors among us tear an ACL playing softball on Saturday, we can probably get in to see a doctor on Monday or Tuesday and will have the MRI done within the week. Do the same thing in the UK or Canada and it could be months before you even see the first doctor. We’d never put up with that in the US. We want and expect everything now. A MAJOR cultural shift would be needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the biggest pile of crap I will read all day. I have friends and family that live in Canada. I have family that lives and works in the UK. I used to live in Germany. It does not take months to get an MRI. That is fox news bullshit. I will give you their phone numbers, you can call them have them call BS to that crap. I just visited them, and visited my Uncle whose daughter lives in the UK. Good god, perpetuating this myth is the exact reason stupid people believe universal healthcare is bad.

[boozehound]

I know people love to cite the universal coverage a single payer system provides. I’ve read that in so of those countries , you can buy additional medical insurance to get service faster and get coverage for items the government run program doesn’t cover.

How long does it take to get an MRI in the US? If the weekend warriors among us tear an ACL playing softball on Saturday, we can probably get in to see a doctor on Monday or Tuesday and will have the MRI done within the week. Do the same thing in the UK or Canada and it could be months before you even see the first doctor. We’d never put up with that in the US. We want and expect everything now. A MAJOR cultural shift would be needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is accurate in some countries, and I fully support it. If you have the means and desire to pay for better health care, you should have that right. I think that we should have basic, 'good', healthcare for everyone with supplemental better healthcare available for those who choose to pay for it. I'm somewhat unique from much of the pro single-payer crowd in that I few it almost entirely from a financial perspective rather than a 'right to equal care' perspective.

[boozehound]

This is the biggest pile of crap I will read all day. I have friends and family that live in Canada. I have family that lives and works in the UK. I used to live in Germany. It does not take months to get an MRI. That is fox news bullshit. I will give you their phone numbers, you can call them have them call BS to that crap. I just visited them, and visited my Uncle whose daughter lives in the UK. Good god, perpetuating this myth is the exact reason stupid people believe universal healthcare is bad.

I have had a similar experience. I have relatives in Canada, the UK, France, and Italy and they all love their healthcare systems.

[X-man]

I know people love to cite the universal coverage a single payer system provides. I’ve read that in so of those countries , you can buy additional medical insurance to get service faster and get coverage for items the government run program doesn’t cover.

How long does it take to get an MRI in the US? If the weekend warriors among us tear an ACL playing softball on Saturday, we can probably get in to see a doctor on Monday or Tuesday and will have the MRI done within the week. Do the same thing in the UK or Canada and it could be months before you even see the first doctor. We’d never put up with that in the US. We want and expect everything now. A MAJOR cultural shift would be needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't know about Canada, but using the UK as your benchmark for single payer is a red herring. Try France if you want to see a system that works and works well. And yes, well functioning systems allow people with the means and desire to do so, to buy supplemental private insurance to broaden and deepen access to healthcare. Actually Medicare does the same thing in this country. You can go the HMO route with a Medicare Advantage plan, or buy more access to a general healthcare network with a supplemental plan. And within supplemental plans, you have 10-12 plans to choose from. They vary in the level of coverage and the premium you must pay. The insurance is from the private sector and is not subsidized by anyone.