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  1. #11
    Supporting Member Emp's Avatar
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    Jesuit elitists

    Quote Originally Posted by drudy23 View Post
    How is it any different from Big 10/ACC or Big 12/SEC (or whoever they play). They seem to revel in the "elitist" label.

    Plus, since when does Jesuit = elitist?
    Well since, ahhh, lemmethink....FOREVER?

    Founding fathers: educated sons of rich Catholics.

    In America: run more prep schools and universities than any other order, by powers.

    The Jesuits think they are hot holy sh*t, and most of us do, too.

    The "other orders" cringe at Jesuit elitism, but it can't be avoided. The Jesuits try to and generally succeed in skimming the cream of Catlick manhood in 8th grade (on the merits and on legacy), and prep them to go to Jesuit universities. They also used to be able to skim that high school crop for their own purposes* and perpetuation. They run candidates through the most vigorous training and preparation one can imaging, and the end product is an intellectual and spiritual five star priest. And that is why any Jesuit you ever had teach you was likely a braniac who was not in the least fearful of having to dumb down to teach you.


    *Editorial note: spent a very short period of time considering whether to be a Jesuit, but those 30-day Spiritual Exercises got in the way.
    It's a still great day to be a Muskie, but a sad day to be a supporting member of this board.

  2. #12
    World Series Champs BBC 08's Avatar
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    The only other order I can think of to compete with the Jesuits in terms of teaching and faith are the Xaverian Brothers.

  3. #13
    Senior PMI's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about anyone who thinks a Jesuit tournament would be elitist. One problem with a conference is that Gonzaga and Georgetown, for example, are not right around the corner. There would be some serious traveling for all the teams.

    This idea has been tossed around on these boards for years. It's a cool thought, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

  4. #14
    Sophomore jdm2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEmperorHasNoClothes View Post
    Well since, ahhh, lemmethink....FOREVER?

    Founding fathers: educated sons of rich Catholics.
    Uh...are you meaning the founders of the SJ? Or like, the Founding Fathers? Because those guys most certainly weren't Catholic...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    I dont think that it is, but people get pissed at the GCL in Cincinnati for being "elitist." I just think that sometimes people get mad when all-Catholic things are formed. I do not agree with this though process but I just think that it exists.
    They don't call the GCL elitists because it's Catholic, they do so because we're better.
    Last edited by drudy23; 12-08-2008 at 11:46 AM.

  6. #16
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    Clarification Notice:

    I didn't start the thread to suggest that we should pursue an all-Jesuit conference. I just thought it was interesting that it was pointed out that IF these schools comprised a conference, that conference would be standing at the 3 RPI rank at this point.

    It is a credit to Catholic school basketball and to Jesuit school basketball in particular.

    Otherwise, such a conference probably would never come together due to travel, as has been noted, and wouldn't have a chance in the near term due to existing tie-ins.
    X A V I E R

  7. #17
    Supporting Member bleedXblue's Avatar
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    what should happen is all 19 schools openly schedule 2-3 games with each other every yeart to help boost each others RPI........

  8. #18
    Supporting Member muskienick's Avatar
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    Here we go --- pipe dream #3,746:

    All-Jebbie Conference:

    EAST: Canisius, Georgetown, St. Joe's, Xavier

    CENTRAL: Detroit, Loyola (IL), Marquette, St. Louis

    WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, San Francisco, Santa Clara

    Play every school in the Conference 1 time (Home one year, Away the next) = 11 games
    (5 Home/6 Away one year; 6 Home/5 Away the next)

    Play two teams from each of the other Divisions (on a rotating basis) each year = 4 games
    (two home, two away; play the other two teams in each division the next year, 2 home and 2 away)

    Conference Schedule = 15 games

    That leaves plenty of opportunity to schedule traditional rivalries, a couple of buy games, and some RPI inflaters.

    Or #3,747 ---

    EAST: Canisius, Detroit, Georgetown, St. Joe's, St. Louis, Xavier

    WEST: Creighton, Gonzaga, Loyola (IL), Marquette, San Fran, Santa Clara

    2 games against each Divisional opponent (1 H, 1 A each) = 10 Games

    1 game against each opponent from the other Division (3 H, 3 A)

    Total Conference Scghedule = 16 games

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'd still prefer a Conference that isn't based on a religious order or even a religion. The Jesuit idea is too restrictive and invites the type of mediocrity we would be trying to escape.

    Such a Conference would have to be free from any member having aspirations for a BCS football program or even a MAC- or CUSA-level program. Any aspirant to such a conference would have to have access to a decent-sized home playing arena and have a recent history of relative continued success and a good fan base. Each should also reside in a good media area, having a metro population of no less than 500,000. It would also seem reasonable to limit the size of the Conference to 9 so that a perfectly equitable schedule of 16 games (8 home and 8 away, and 2 against each member) could be made. It would also be best to prevent the situation that now adversely affects the A-10 --- that is, having two or three members in the same city (vying for the same fans, media attention, recruits, etc.).

    One can easily count the likes of Butler, Dayton, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Louis, Villanova, and Xavier in such a group. (I'd also place Creighton in the mix but I've been blasted in the past for that suggestion with the comment that the Blue Jays are just too far away. I could see my way clear to forget about Creighton, mistake that I think it would be, if someone could suggest a couple of more good members from the East to fill out the nine spots.) Who would be the best two from among the likes of St. John's (ugh!), Canisius, Davidson, VCU, ODU, Providence, Seton Hall or URI? Should we consider the St. Joe's Hawks as a viable entry even though they seem to have the foresight of Ray Charles ("expanding" their band box from 3,200 to 4,000) and they would share their City with another member, Villanova? UMass and Charlotte are both talking D-1 football programs so they should be left out of the mix.

    One might wonder if it wouldn't be best for all involved to just put the nine best programs together regardless of geography and hope that the national media exposure and fan base growth could offset any negative aspects of travel costs and classes missed. If so, we could have an All-Continent Conference consisting of:

    Butler, Creighton, Dayton, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Marquette, St. Louis, Villanova, and XU.

    Not All-Jesuit. Not even All-Catholic. But almost certainly: Not Likely!

  9. #19
    Supporting Member Emp's Avatar
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    Geography IS important

    Yes, I meant that Loyola guy, born in a castle, and Francis X, also a royal guy.
    ...............


    The NCAA wont let teams form a Div 1 basketball only conference, and for good reason: It's (also?) about all the student athletes on other non basketball teams, the expense of non revenue sports, , and oh my god, the students, the student's parents, and fans who want to...gasp... actually attend a game, match, meet.... and not simply couch potato it.

    The additional subtext issue is the expense, and not just the time, of competing in or attending a cross country meet, soccer match, golf tournament, swim meet....in Philly, Rhode Island, Charlotte, DC. Our league is already spread across nearly half of America.
    Attending a competition and returning the same day is really only possible in Dayton, maybe Pittsburgh or St. Louis.

    The next issue is competitive balance in the non revenue sports. Georgetown would be a great basketball match, not such a great place for Xavier to compete in many non rev sports.

    Basketball is great, I love it, but it can't be the starting and ending point of league affiliation discussions.
    It's a still great day to be a Muskie, but a sad day to be a supporting member of this board.

  10. #20
    Supporting Member fellahmuskie's Avatar
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    This doesn't have anything to do with a conference, but what if we were to set up a revolving 4-team tournament each December between several Catholic schools? Yes, this has been discussed ad nauseam, but I'm just wondering what good reasons there are not doing it. In this case, I'm thinking Xavier, Creighton, Gonzaga and someone else--possibly Georgetown or even Memphis, though they aren't Catholic. Each year the tournament would be played at a different school. It could be held near Christmas and would be broadcast on ESPN. Given the year-in, year-out quality of all these schools, every match-up would be extremely hard-fought, especially with home-court advantage for one school. I see it being like a 4-team Crosstown Shootout atmosphere, where rankings and hype mean nothing once the game starts because of the incredible intensity.

    I think I would definitely prefer Memphis over a Georgetown in the tournament, too. 4 elite programs from mid-major conferences (some may question Creighton, but I think that they're at the place we were just a few years back. We've morphed into a Gonzaga or Memphis now in terms of recruiting, but they're close. Hopefully they make the leap soon.) playing great basketball on a national stage. I don't see how that wouldn't be immensely popular to watch nationwide, especially if it were marketed properly. Given the basketball-centric nature of each of the schools, too, I think that ticket sales would be strong. One difficulty may be attendance if the host didn't make the finals. If it were enough of an event, though, that could be overcome. I know I would love to watch a Gonzaga-Memphis match-up at Cintas, even if Xavier had been knocked out.

    And, yes, it would be elitist, but it's probably the closest we could come to the types of conferences we've been discussing.

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