Global Chaos

**xu82** · 02-24-2024, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

Probably not because they grew up in a culture that both overtly and subtly instilled in them prejudices against Jews and gay people. Further, since the culture they grew up in was homogeneous, they probably do not even realize that their views on those people may be prejudicial as all they know are the stereotypes that have been reinforced in them since they were small children and have no exposure to counter world view that could change those beliefs. However, exposing the group "that just wants to go about their lives" to Jews and gay people in their everyday lives might have the net positive effect of making them question the prejudices that have been instilled in them by their prior generations and they just might realize the vast majority of people aren't the caricature their upbringing painted them as, but just other people who just want to go about their lives.

You say all this like the concept only applies to some people.

Xuperman · 02-24-2024, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

So you think their government and society could benefit from including more diversity, equity and inclusion throughout it?

Of course. For some reason folks here can not grasp that this is simply IMPOSSIBLE. What about "From the river to the sea"....is in anyway....not not a rock solid doctrine? The cold blooded reality is that ZERO HAMAS leadership is interested in allowing/acknowledging the existence of of Israel.

THEY WANT TO KILL THEM ALL.

**xu82** · 02-24-2024, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Xuperman

Of course. For some reason folks here can not grasp that this is simply IMPOSSIBLE. What about "From the river to the sea"....is in anyway....not not a rock solid doctrine? The cold blooded reality is that ZERO HAMAS leadership is interested in allowing/acknowledging the existence of of Israel.

THEY WANT TO KILL THEM ALL.

Again, lumping everyone in together is a bad idea. Our Palestinian uncle (he had his childhood home taken) was happy to attend the wedding when my Catholic SIL married a Jewish guy. It’s not all as black and white as you like to think. Nothing is that simple.

I feel like I’m coming off as pro-Palestinian, but the truth is I don’t like either side in this. I see how both sides have been wrong in many ways for a long time, but I’m afraid I have ZERO suggestions for how to make the situation better. If I hadn’t joined a family with personal experience in the region 40+ years ago I might feel differently, but thru them I learned not to trust all you see and hear. There is always another side of the story.

Xuperman · 02-24-2024, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by xu82

Again, lumping everyone in together is a bad idea. Our Palestinian uncle (he had his childhood home taken) was happy to attend the wedding when my Catholic SIL married a Jewish guy. It’s not all as black and white as you like to think. Nothing is that simple.

I feel like I’m coming off as pro-Palestinian, but the truth is I don’t like either side in this. I see how both sides have been wrong in many ways for a long time, but I’m afraid I have ZERO suggestions for how to make the situation better. If I hadn’t joined a family with personal experience in the region 40+ years ago I might feel differently, but thru them I learned not to trust all you see and hear. There is always another side of the story.

The suffocating radical ideology in Gaza leadership, makes it impossible for any moderate population to change anything. If there was any organized anti-Hamas resistance, IN GAZA, there could be some hope to bring this madness down from within. No reports of this whatsoever... the overwhelming population of Gaza has shown to be backing Hamas and it's actions.

**xu82** · 02-24-2024, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Xuperman

The suffocating radical ideology in Gaza leadership, makes it impossible for any moderate population to change anything. If there was any organized anti-Hamas resistance, IN GAZA, there could be some hope to bring this madness down from within. No reports of this whatsoever... the overwhelming population of Gaza has shown to be backing Hamas and it's actions.

You don’t understand what Hamas is. As I earlier stated (and got no reaction from you) Hamas also builds schools and hospitals.

I suggest you stay away from lumping people into categories, or having firm positions about things you are generally uninformed about.

I won’t keep going on this, but people should see both sides. I’ll add one example. There was an Anthony Bourdain episode (look it up, I found it to be really interesting) being filmed in Beirut when war broke out. The word was 2 or 3 (I forget the exact number, but it is important) Israeli soldiers were captured by people along the border. Israel began bombing the Beirut airport and other critical areas. It was fascinating as Bourdain and crew were safe in a hillside resort with a perfect view to film the bombing.

What they did NOT tell you was that Israel had captured the exact same number of people a day or two earlier. My MIL knew what group they were from and where it took place. It was an equal and proportionate response, but nobody heard a word of this. They just bombed the shit out of Beirut without consequence.

Don’t have firm opinions if you don’t have all the info is my suggestion, but you sound like you know everything already.

**STL_XUfan** · 02-24-2024, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by xu82

You say all this like the concept only applies to some people.

Oh my tongue was firmly in my cheek. I was responding to someone who spends his time on the Politics threads railing against anything that is foreign to him or policies that make him reflect on possible latent biases as ruining our country.

Making the "other" the enemy rather than a human being is the easiest propaganda trick to play. That propaganda quickly falls away as soon as you can put a face to the "other."

All of the following can be true as it pertains to this conflict:

1. What Hamas did on October 7 was horrific and should not be tolerated.
2. Israel has an absolute right to defend itself and take necessary offensive tactics to rescue its hostages and hold Hamas accountable.
3. Israel does not have the right to indiscriminately kill citizens, including children, and their response should attempt to minimize loss of civilian life.
4. That Israel's response will have diminishing returns in destroying Hamas. Citizens watching their children or parents being blown up by Israel are not going to consider points one and two, they will want their own revenge. The side offering the avenue for that response will be Hamas. You will see otherwise neutral citizen quickly become radicalized the more suffering you impose on them (same is true on the Israeli side also).

Xuperman · 02-24-2024, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by xu82

You don’t understand what Hamas is. As I earlier stated (and got no reaction from you) Hamas also builds schools and hospitals.

I suggest you stay away from lumping people into categories, or having firm positions about things you are generally uninformed about.

Don’t have firm opinions if you don’t have all the info is my suggestion, but you sound like you know everything already.

Huh? That is essential infrastructure. Name one functioning society were those things are not built? Apparently Hamas has been spending a vast amount of their "schools and hospitals" budget to construct a 300 mile fortified tunnel network for their terrorist agenda.

[/QUOTE] "I suggest you stay away from lumping people into categories, or having firm positions about things you are generally uninformed about." [/QUOTE].

I am as informed as the Google machine will allow. Unlike you, I have never had any desire to visit any of these "Death to America" countries of "peace" for a personal experience....too risky.

[/QUOTE] "Don’t have firm opinions if you don’t have all the info is my suggestion, but you sound like you know everything already.[/QUOTE]"

Typical leftist tactic. Simply disregard the undeniable and muddy the conversational water. This "like you know everything" is a very lazy way for folks to discredit others and attempt to have it both ways.