Why Miller over Mack?

**boozehound** · 03-16-2022, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Xavier

Mack was most successful coach at X, Miller was the best. Macks success was not year over year but rather up and down. I think his success was more dependent on team skill than coaching. (I think he is still a good coach) Miller continued to get better and felt like better roster construction. His success felt more like a result of a well built program and culture vs Mack which was up and down depending on strong talent base.

Agree with this. It was very up and down. I think Mack is just a moderately better version of Steele. Mack ran the same shitty offense that Steele runs for the most part, just with better talent and better defense. Imagine what would have happened had he not secured Trevon Blueitt? The 1 and 2 seed (both squandered BTW) and the Elite 8 run likely would not have happened if you replace Blueitt with a less talented player.

Then he goes to Louisville and completely blows it in spectacular fashion. How often do you see coaches step down in season? When things started to go wrong he immediately alienated both the locker room and the fan base (more Travis Steele parallels) to the point that he lost the locker room and had to step down mid season.

I kind of hope Mack isn't done coaching, because I want to see him get a shot somewhere else to test my theory. I think he may be a much worse coach than he appeared to be at Xavier.

markchal · 03-16-2022, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by boozehound

Agree with this. It was very up and down. I think Mack is just a moderately better version of Steele. Mack ran the same shitty offense that Steele runs for the most part, just with better talent and better defense. Imagine what would have happened had he not secured Trevon Blueitt? The 1 and 2 seed (both squandered BTW) and the Elite 8 run likely would not have happened if you replace Blueitt with a less talented player.

Then he goes to Louisville and completely blows it in spectacular fashion. How often do you see coaches step down in season? When things started to go wrong he immediately alienated both the locker room and the fan base (more Travis Steele parallels) to the point that he lost the locker room and had to step down mid season.

I kind of hope Mack isn't done coaching, because I want to see him get a shot somewhere else to test my theory. I think he may be a much worse coach than he appeared to be at Xavier.

If "moderately better" = 1 elite 8, a 1 seed and a few Sweet 16s, sign me up for any moderately better coach in the nation

markchal · 03-16-2022, 07:15 AM

Mack was a good coach and as an alum was a good rep for the school. He's unquestionably the program's most successful coach. There were more people who stayed in the stands to watch us cut down the nets after winning the BE title than were there last night for Steele's biggest March win in 4 years.

The way large parts of this fanbase have turned on Mack is infantile. I get it, sports can kinda be that way, but it's still amateurish. I'd definitely take Mack (after all, he did beat Miller in a pretty high-profile game) back in a second.

Miller...was the better coach. His teams consistently got better and always played their best at the end of the season. I would prefer Miller, who I think would be here for the next 10-15 years and make us near the top of the BE with Nova.

My only hope is that Miller (who by all accounts would leap at the job) doesn't take another job this offseason, and will only be more appealing to the admin next offseason when we go through a worse version of this

**boozehound** · 03-16-2022, 07:23 AM

I'm not sure why getting a 1 seed and failing to turn it into even a Sweet 16 is something that we are so proud of. That 1 seed was one of my worst NCAA tournament memories of the past 20 years, followed by the 2 seed that we also parlayed into an early exit. Both felt like a horrible squandering of an opportunity. In particular the 1 seed season felt incomplete to me. We won the Big East but didn't beat Villanova, then we get a 1 seed and lose in the first weekend.

You are also employing some heavy revisionist history about people 'turning on Mack'. Many criticized his coaching while he was here, and there were several periods of time when more than a few fans were questioning if he was the right guy. That Elite 8 run came at just the right time, sandwiched between 2 seasons that fell woefully short of expectations.

I'd probably take Chris Mack back too, but I don't think he is anywhere near the coach that Miller is.

xavierj · 03-16-2022, 07:32 AM

Chris Mack doesn’t seem to love coaching basketball and he apparently hates recruiting. You can’t have a coach that hates probably one of the most important parts of being a college coach. I don’t think he will coach in college again. Either way I wouldn’t want him back.

markchal · 03-16-2022, 07:33 AM

I think achieving new heights for the program is pretty great. Winning a BE title was awesome, even if it is a watered down BE. And seeing us on the 1-seed line was a pretty cool moment. Obviously getting upset stinks, but we know better than most how anything can happen in the tournament (and we've seen the same thing happen to a fair amount of top-seeds lately). Wisconsin we fell victim to a brutal call and an unlucky shot. FSU also had some weirdness (JPs 5th foul, Naji's back becoming a problem at the worst time, a total lack of bench production).

I guess it's easier to console yourself after a wonky March Madness moment when you have an incredibly successful regular season, just as it's easier to forgive an uneven regular season after a terrific run in March Madness.

We haven't had either one for years

**boozehound** · 03-16-2022, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by markchal

I guess it's easier to console yourself after a wonky March Madness moment when you have an incredibly successful regular season, just as it's easier to forgive an uneven regular season after a terrific run in March Madness.

We haven't had either one for years

For some reason I have a much easier time with the 2nd part of that than the first, but it might just be me. That Elite 8 run pretty much erased a pretty crappy season in my mind. Squandering the 1 seed really stung. It felt like that was a year with a real shot at getting to a Final 4, but we didn't even give it a real run.

Regardless, Mack coming back would be outright strange I think. Miller doesn't feel like it would be, but that's probably a function of time. Also the whole world just watched Chris Mack self destruct like 3 months ago. If it was 3 years from now, I might feel differently about Mack (although XavierJ has a good point about how much his head and heart are really in it anymore). Maybe we can take a look at him in a few years when the administration finally has the stones to get rid of Steele?

Blue Blooded-05 · 03-16-2022, 08:18 AM

There are plenty of rumors that suggests Mack was committed to Hookerville before the 2017-18 season even began. The timing wasn't quite right, and Mack knew he had a legit top-10 team that season. He thought he could separate his current obligation from his future ambition.

He couldn't.

Furthermore, if I am choosing a team identity, I am choosing a Miller team. Those teams were tough and carried swagger on both ends of the floor.