Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 82
  1. #51
    All-Conference
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    8,446
    Gonzaga would be awesome, but I don't think that will happen.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I'd love to renew the Dayton rivalry again. I don't understand why people don't want to play them? It's a great game with a great atmosphere. I hate UC, but it would hardcore suck if that game never happened again.

    UD would also be significantly better than St Louis - that does nothing for me. Snoozefest.

  2. #52
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,390
    Quote Originally Posted by drudy23 View Post
    Gonzaga would be awesome, but I don't think that will happen.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I'd love to renew the Dayton rivalry again. I don't understand why people don't want to play them? It's a great game with a great atmosphere. I hate UC, but it would hardcore suck if that game never happened again.

    UD would also be significantly better than St Louis - that does nothing for me. Snoozefest.
    You are thinking about this from a fan perspective. You aren't thinking about it from a University perspective. Dayton isn't happening when it comes to them being offered a BE membership. VD doesn't have a prayer in hell of that happening. It isn't about fear of Dayton. We've owned them for years as far as that goes. It's about having a strategic advantage over Dayton by virtue of our Big East membership.

    You don't give that up at the institutional level.

    You don't give up a recruiting advantage over them; why do something that makes them stronger, while increasing recruiting pressure on our program?

    Nova will never allow another Philly school in the BE.
    Georgetown will never allow GW in the BE.
    St. John's and Seton Hall will never allow Fordham in the BE.
    DePaul will never allow Loyola in the BE.

    Not that any of those schools are worthy now, but Dayton isn't worthy either.

    Beyond that, yes, you are in the minority. That rivalry became too toxic for its own good. It deserves to remain in a permanent slumber.

    Could some form of one-off OOC game take place every once in a while with the mouth breathers? I suppose it could, at least on paper. But it hasn't happened yet. We have absolutely no interest - NADA - in doing anything that would provide a sense of legitimacy to that historically underperforming program.
    X A V I E R

  3. #53
    Junior
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    3,151
    Imo this whole Val Ackerman leak is about Gonzaga, period. The Zags are the only school that adds anything to the tv package. So no UD no SLU no Wichita, or any of the other goofy idea put forth. It's Gonzaga or nothing.

  4. #54
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    9,390
    Quote Originally Posted by JTG View Post
    Imo this whole Val Ackerman leak is about Gonzaga, period. The Zags are the only school that adds anything to the tv package. So no UD no SLU no Wichita, or any of the other goofy idea put forth. It's Gonzaga or nothing.
    You won't get any argument here.

    This appears to have been a timed leak.

    It is certainly reasonable to believe that very quiet conversations are going on between Fox and Val, at the direction of the Presidents, perhaps.

    Imagine being able to approach Gonzaga with a television package that increases to the $7-9 million+ range per school, versus what Gonzaga is looking at with respect to the WCC package after it takes a close shave from the loss of BYU.

    It's not about making the logistics easy for them. That isn't possible. But they can work on making them manageable, and certainly acceptable given such a media payout, coupled with an NCAAT Unit machine that is and will continue to be the Big East.

    Seriously, I truly think I would be beside myself if Xavier weren't in the Big East at this point. When the train leaves the station after this next go around, the hobos aren't going to have much to cheer about.
    X A V I E R

  5. #55
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,147
    Some tidbits/brain dump on Gonzaga....

    The Zags may very well be the Big East's top choice for expansion. There is no question in my mind, even with them being such a geographic outlier, that they would be an asset for the conference. The question in my mind is would they even want to come?? And if so, under what circumstances??

    The current Big East TV contract pays each school about $4.5 million a year, and while that should increase once this contact is up (and very much deservedly so), it's my understanding that Gonzaga currently makes over $9 million a year just off of TV. That's more than double what each Big East team gets. They basically get the majority of their money from the conference deal while everyone else in the WCC gets bread crumbs.

    They had the chance to go to the Mountain West (I don't think that's a secret anymore) and chose not to, and the deciding factor was the WCC basically gave them all the TV money they wanted, as big a share of NCAA Tournament money as they wanted, and allowed them to basically keep all of their OOC TV revenue. They are raking in as much TV money as anyone in the country, and the door to go to the MWC is probably still open, so they can always use that as leverage.

    So, to get Gonzaga, what would the Big East have to put on the table? I'm guessing probably more than what they'd want to, and probably more than what they should give up. I don't want to say that it's totally impossible, or that it shouldn't at least be looked at, but I will say that I'm guessing that Gonzaga probably feels they don't need the Big East, so unless the Big East is willing to give them more money than what they're already getting (and THAT would probably mean giving them substantially more than the other 11 members), they probably won't join.

    I don't know how badly Fox wants a 12th team if that team is someone other than Gonzaga. I am inclined to think that if Fox really wants a 12th team and has someone specific in mind, then that's who the 12th team will be. Media deals just seem to carry more weight now than they ever have before even though they don't officially get a vote. ESPN/CBS basically wanted to more than double the number of football games that drew over 7 million viewers, and realized that Texas vs LSU, and Texas v Alabama, and Texas v TAMU, Texas v Oklahoma, and Oklahoma v Florida, and Oklahoma v Georgia, and some other match-ups would almost always hit those marks whereas Texas v TCU and Oklahoma v Kansas State would not. So, the SEC expanded because that's what the networks wanted. Texas A&M wasn't happy about it, but it didn't matter.

    College basketball is not on that scale. With the exception of the NCAA Tournament, it's far more regional than national in terms of ratings and viewership, but the idea is still kind of the same. I kind of said this in an earlier post, but iff Fox wants 12 and wants a specific school, and is willing to up the annual TV money by more than $2 million per school if they feel it means more broadcasts and more viewers, then whatever school they want (be it public, private, catholic, or whatever) is who it will be, and however they want the scheduling format to work is how it will work.
    Last edited by xubrew; 10-19-2021 at 10:00 AM.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  6. #56
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,147
    One more Big East/Gonzaga tidbit...

    In looking at Xavier's OOC schedule this year, they are playing in one exempt event (the NIT) and a road game at Oklahoma State per a scheduling agreement. All other games, literally ALL of them, Fox has the rights to. I believe that is typical of all Big East teams for all seasons.

    I could foresee that as being something else Gonzaga doesn't like. They like being able to schedule who they want OOC and not be obligated to have X number of them (or in the case of the BE, virtually all of them) be part of their conferences TV deal. I also understand that the Big East is much stronger than the WCC, and the need to schedule about ten showcase OOC games wouldn't be quite as necessary, but nevertheless I think it's something that the Zags still like to do, and it is therefore something else that they like about their current situation.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  7. #57
    Administrator Muskie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,045
    What are the costs of the non-revenue Big East Sports playing Gonzaga. While the TV money will be greater some of that money will have to subsidize the other increased costs across the athletic department.
    "He's a little bit ball-dominant, he needs to have the ball in his hands, and he's not a good shooter." Ball-dominant … isn't that a nice way of calling someone a ball hog? Where is my Jay Bilas Thesaurus?

    Follow XH on Twitter

    Follow XH on Facebook

  8. #58
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Muskie View Post
    What are the costs of the non-revenue Big East Sports playing Gonzaga. While the TV money will be greater some of that money will have to subsidize the other increased costs across the athletic department.
    It would undoubtedly be more, and it is something to consider, but for most sports schools would only be going out there once every two years. I don't think there is any other college sport other than men's and women's basketball where home and homes are the norm. Maybe volleyball?? Now Gonzaga traveling east multiple times a year in all sports...that's libel to get kind of pricey.
    Last edited by xubrew; 10-19-2021 at 10:21 AM.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
    Some tidbits/brain dump on Gonzaga....

    The Zags may very well be the Big East's top choice for expansion. There is no question in my mind, even with them being such a geographic outlier, that they would be an asset for the conference. The question in my mind is would they even want to come?? And if so, under what circumstances??

    The current Big East TV contract pays each school about $4.5 million a year, and while that should increase once this contact is up (and very much deservedly so), it's my understanding that Gonzaga currently makes over $9 million a year just off of TV. That's more than double what each Big East team gets. They basically get the majority of their money from the conference deal while everyone else in the WCC gets bread crumbs.

    They had the chance to go to the Mountain West (I don't think that's a secret anymore) and chose not to, and the deciding factor was the WCC basically gave them all the TV money they wanted, as big a share of NCAA Tournament money as they wanted, and allowed them to basically keep all of their OOC TV revenue. They are raking in as much TV money as anyone in the country, and the door to go to the MWC is probably still open, so they can always use that as leverage.

    So, to get Gonzaga, what would the Big East have to put on the table? I'm guessing probably more than what they'd want to, and probably more than what they should give up. I don't want to say that it's totally impossible, or that it shouldn't at least be looked at, but I will say that I'm guessing that Gonzaga probably feels they don't need the Big East, so unless the Big East is willing to give them more money than what they're already getting (and THAT would probably mean giving them substantially more than the other 11 members), they probably won't join.

    I don't know how badly Fox wants a 12th team if that team is someone other than Gonzaga. I am inclined to think that if Fox really wants a 12th team and has someone specific in mind, then that's who the 12th team will be. Media deals just seem to carry more weight now than they ever have before even though they don't officially get a vote. ESPN/CBS basically wanted to more than double the number of football games that drew over 7 million viewers, and realized that Texas vs LSU, and Texas v Alabama, and Texas v TAMU, Texas v Oklahoma, and Oklahoma v Florida, and Oklahoma v Georgia, and some other match-ups would almost always hit those marks whereas Texas v TCU and Oklahoma v Kansas State would not. So, the SEC expanded because that's what the networks wanted. Texas A&M wasn't happy about it, but it didn't matter.

    College basketball is not on that scale. With the exception of the NCAA Tournament, it's far more regional than national in terms of ratings and viewership, but the idea is still kind of the same. I kind of said this in an earlier post, but iff Fox wants 12 and wants a specific school, and is willing to up the annual TV money by more than $2 million per school if they feel it means more broadcasts and more viewers, then whatever school they want (be it public, private, catholic, or whatever) is who it will be, and however they want the scheduling format to work is how it will work.
    I dont see a scenario where TV money is not distributed equally. I'm not even sure I believe that Gonzaga has that type of arrangement in the WCC Currently. They probably get alot of money for the made for TV non-con games.

    What would be the point of unequal distribution of money? DePaul currently sucks. So lets crush their budget? Individual teams obviously look out for #1, first and foremost. But conferences exist as a sort of alliance where the member teams can benefit from the success of eth other member teams.

    I dont see Nova, or Uconn or Georgetown allowing Gonzaga to earn more than they do.

    Your narrative here sounds a little like what the "sales pitch" might be if you were Gonzaga. "give us disproportionally more, or we are not coming." You are forgetting that there is always the option of the Big East saying "ok, see you in about 8 years when our TV contract is due for renewal again....maybe."

    There is one window to get this done. If Fox wants it, then it comes down to making sure the existing BE and Gonzaga are better off joining forces than not.

    Gonzaga would get a massive lift in competition and exposure. Current BE teams will get more money.

    Honestly, if you are XU or Providence or Seton Hall and someone asked if you wanted Gonzaga to join the conference you'd probably say you were indifferent. But if they said it meant 3M more per year in TV revenue, you sign up for that immediately. Money is the motivating aspect for the current BE members. They wont agree to an unbalanced distribution model. There are enough "average" BE teams to block expansion if it comes with TV money payout issues.

  10. #60
    Supporting Member xubrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,147
    Quote Originally Posted by MHettel View Post
    I dont see a scenario where TV money is not distributed equally. I'm not even sure I believe that Gonzaga has that type of arrangement in the WCC Currently. They probably get alot of money for the made for TV non-con games.

    What would be the point of unequal distribution of money? DePaul currently sucks. So lets crush their budget? Individual teams obviously look out for #1, first and foremost. But conferences exist as a sort of alliance where the member teams can benefit from the success of eth other member teams.

    I dont see Nova, or Uconn or Georgetown allowing Gonzaga to earn more than they do.

    Your narrative here sounds a little like what the "sales pitch" might be if you were Gonzaga. "give us disproportionally more, or we are not coming." You are forgetting that there is always the option of the Big East saying "ok, see you in about 8 years when our TV contract is due for renewal again....maybe."

    There is one window to get this done. If Fox wants it, then it comes down to making sure the existing BE and Gonzaga are better off joining forces than not.

    Gonzaga would get a massive lift in competition and exposure. Current BE teams will get more money.

    Honestly, if you are XU or Providence or Seton Hall and someone asked if you wanted Gonzaga to join the conference you'd probably say you were indifferent. But if they said it meant 3M more per year in TV revenue, you sign up for that immediately. Money is the motivating aspect for the current BE members. They wont agree to an unbalanced distribution model. There are enough "average" BE teams to block expansion if it comes with TV money payout issues.
    So...I think we agree. Just to recap the overall points...

    -In order for Gonzaga to seriously consider joining the Big East, they'd have to get more media revenue than what they are getting now.

    -In order for the Big East to supply them with that, they'd almost have to give them a bigger share. I guess that wouldn't be necessary if Fox agreed to give all 12 schools more than $9 million a year, but I seriously doubt they'll do that. I feel pretty confident in saying with absolute certainty Fox won't do that.

    -The Big East likely would not want to give Gonzaga a bigger share, nor should they want to give them a bigger share. And therefore....

    -Gonzaga probably won't join.
    "You can't fix stupid." Ron White

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •