Do you think the United States just had a free and fair election?

[STL_XUfan]

I'll just say that it's embarrassing that we can't develop a technology to address the issue of voter fraud.

If that is not possible, then extend the amount of time you can vote and make the locations accessible to all.

We should have universal dates for ALL states. Start date to vote, last day to vote..........etc.

With mail in voting the primary way to verify the authenticity of a vote is a signature? Holy crap, my vote doesn't count if I happen to sign my ballot differently than I did 2 years ago? Peoples signature change over time.

Gotta do better, we need fair elections that the PEOPLE of the USA can trust.

The reality is that we have this right now. However, bad faith actors use the complexity of having 50 different sets of rules to make bull shit arguments that there is fraud. Further, they then use those rules to try to disenfranchise people through things like the signature match you described.

I have worked for several years as a poll worker in Hamilton County, and it is really impressive how much thought goes into the security of the election and the quite frankly idiot proof measures to ensure you don't have the ability to scam the system at any step.

As an example, take the system in Ohio. I first register to vote by proving my identity, which places me on the voter rolls. Being on the voter roll allows me to request an absentee ballot (or vote by mail). Upon request a unique bar code is entered into the system for my ballot. It is then mailed to my house. I am able to track it through a website established by the SOS.

Once received, I fill it out and mail it back in. I can track it back to the BOE through that same website. Once received, that same unique bar code is scanned to ensure a match. My signature is then reviewed to determine a match or a mismatch. If it is a match it is approved and counted. If it is a mismatch (or other issue), then that same ballot tracker website informs me that my ballot was rejected. I then have up to 7 days from the election to show up to the BOE to prove it was my ballot and it will be counted.

As far as counting, it is ran through a machine which places the information on a data card that is secured in the machine by tamper proof tape (and not connected to the internet). When it comes time to remove it, both a republican and democrat have to observe that tamper proof tape, print the information off the machine, remove the card, and seal it in a tamperproof bag. Further, the paper ballots are retained in the same tamper proof bag in order to conduct an audit later on to ensure there are no issues with the machine.

If I were to show up on the date of election after requesting a ballot, then the computer system would flag me as already having requested a ballot. The system will not allow the poll worker to issue a ballot. Instead a provisional ballot would be issued and I would have 7 days to appear at the BOE to prove I only voted once, and that it should count.

So for massive vote fraud to happen, it could occur in the following ways:

1. Someone steals ballots out of post box, or mailman sets them on fire. Safe guard: for this to be effective, every single person whose ballot was destroyed did not bother to track their ballot. In large scale, it would get caught.
2. Steal and fill out paper ballots. Safe guard: these ballots would not count as they were not scanned into the system when sent out. The bar code is scanned to the particular voter.
3. Request other registered voters ballots. Safe guard: This would require knowing in advance who is and isn't going to vote, requesting the ballot and stealing it from their mailbox. Any person requests a ballot, and it would reveal that something is up.
4. Hack the voting machine. Safe Guard: the paper ballots are maintained and audits are conducted to ensure that there are not discrepancies between the paper ballots and the machine count.

So I am sure you can find one off issues with this system, but it would be nearly impossible to pull off a large scale fraud that would be significant enough to change 10s of thousands of votes.

[bjf123]

Ohio has a good system. You’re not hearing any claims of voter fraud here. The places ripe for fraud are those where ballots are mailed to everyone regardless of the voter wanting one, without verifying if the voter even lives there.


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[STL_XUfan]

Ohio has a good system. You’re not hearing any claims of voter fraud here. The places ripe for fraud are those where ballots are mailed to everyone regardless of the voter wanting one, without verifying if the voter even lives there.


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I know of two states that do that, Colorado and California (I think there are more, but I didn't look it up). Have there been any claims in widespread voter fraud in those states?

[bobbiemcgee]

9 cases in 7 years here in CO. So that would be 0.0000028%

[boozehound]

The reality is that we have this right now. However, bad faith actors use the complexity of having 50 different sets of rules to make bull shit arguments that there is fraud. Further, they then use those rules to try to disenfranchise people through things like the signature match you described.

I have worked for several years as a poll worker in Hamilton County, and it is really impressive how much thought goes into the security of the election and the quite frankly idiot proof measures to ensure you don't have the ability to scam the system at any step.

As an example, take the system in Ohio. I first register to vote by proving my identity, which places me on the voter rolls. Being on the voter roll allows me to request an absentee ballot (or vote by mail). Upon request a unique bar code is entered into the system for my ballot. It is then mailed to my house. I am able to track it through a website established by the SOS.

Once received, I fill it out and mail it back in. I can track it back to the BOE through that same website. Once received, that same unique bar code is scanned to ensure a match. My signature is then reviewed to determine a match or a mismatch. If it is a match it is approved and counted. If it is a mismatch (or other issue), then that same ballot tracker website informs me that my ballot was rejected. I then have up to 7 days from the election to show up to the BOE to prove it was my ballot and it will be counted.

As far as counting, it is ran through a machine which places the information on a data card that is secured in the machine by tamper proof tape (and not connected to the internet). When it comes time to remove it, both a republican and democrat have to observe that tamper proof tape, print the information off the machine, remove the card, and seal it in a tamperproof bag. Further, the paper ballots are retained in the same tamper proof bag in order to conduct an audit later on to ensure there are no issues with the machine.

If I were to show up on the date of election after requesting a ballot, then the computer system would flag me as already having requested a ballot. The system will not allow the poll worker to issue a ballot. Instead a provisional ballot would be issued and I would have 7 days to appear at the BOE to prove I only voted once, and that it should count.

So for massive vote fraud to happen, it could occur in the following ways:

1. Someone steals ballots out of post box, or mailman sets them on fire. Safe guard: for this to be effective, every single person whose ballot was destroyed did not bother to track their ballot. In large scale, it would get caught.
2. Steal and fill out paper ballots. Safe guard: these ballots would not count as they were not scanned into the system when sent out. The bar code is scanned to the particular voter.
3. Request other registered voters ballots. Safe guard: This would require knowing in advance who is and isn't going to vote, requesting the ballot and stealing it from their mailbox. Any person requests a ballot, and it would reveal that something is up.
4. Hack the voting machine. Safe Guard: the paper ballots are maintained and audits are conducted to ensure that there are not discrepancies between the paper ballots and the machine count.

So I am sure you can find one off issues with this system, but it would be nearly impossible to pull off a large scale fraud that would be significant enough to change 10s of thousands of votes.

Preach on, brother.

We have had a lot of allegations of voter fraud. We haven't had any credible evidence brought into a court of law. That should tell people something. If you are a conspiracy theory aficionado you can believe that multiple states' court systems (and Republican legislatures) are also in cahoots with the Democrats to rig the election. If you think rationally about the situation I would imagine you would come to the conclusion that widespread voter fraud is extraordinarily unlikely to have occurred.

If the Democrats were this smart, they wouldn't be doing such stupid stuff all the time.

EDIT: Point is - We have free and fair elections that everyone can trust. The just don't because they are choosing not to. We don't have perfect elections, but we certainly don't have fraud on a scale that influences anything. It's impossible to prove a negative, so when people's stance is 'prove that voter fraud doesn't exist' it's an impossible standard. There is a reason our courts require affirmative proof of allegations.

[boozehound]

Ohio has a good system. You’re not hearing any claims of voter fraud here. The places ripe for fraud are those where ballots are mailed to everyone regardless of the voter wanting one, without verifying if the voter even lives there.


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9 states do this. None of them are the states in which the Trump campaign is disputing results.

Vermont
Nevada
District of Columbia
California
New Jersey
Colorado
Hawaii
Utah
Washington
Oregon

[paulxu]

Despite all these claims of voter "fraud", when the attorneys (whose retention of their license depends on being truthful in court) go into these many court rooms...and don't allege fraud.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-c...nt-11605271267

[Muskie in dayton]

I just voted that we have election fraud, but it recorded my vote as we didn’t have fraud! This poll is fraudulent!!!

[STL_XUfan]

I just voted that we have election fraud, but it recorded my vote as we didn’t have fraud! This poll is fraudulent!!!

Snipe not having a paper back up proves he is part of the deep state. We should burn him at the stake!

[tacopizza885]

As a great fan of Snipe, his passion and dedication to all things X, his love and devotion to the American way, and his eloquent poetic style on the old basketballforum... with a heavy heart, and deep sorrow, I cannot follow him down this road.

There was no (consequential) election fraud.