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  1. #21
    Supporting Member XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xville View Post
    Although I agree louisville should pay for what they did, no matter if the people (jurich, ramsey, pitino, hell even petrino) are gone, the stuff you wrote above in my opinion is complete nonsense. Please explain what the community and the fans did to allow the university to operate the way they did under Ramsay and jurich and are in your estimation still doing or not doing to perpetuate bad behavior?

    Pitino, petrino, jurich and Ramsay are frankly all just really bad people...they have been replaced.
    Ever heard the term “friends of the program”? I’m of the belief, from talking with people that are native to the community and the university..............that there have been, and still are, people with deep pockets and with political clout that have pretty much turned a blind eye to what has been happening there for years, and in some cases have actively engaged in questionable behavior in regards to UL athletics. I’m also of the belief that until those people are no longer part of the picture surround UL, things won’t change. It’s fine and dandy to remove coaches and administrators at the university, but unless the new coaches and administrators cut off access to the programs by those outside influencers, I don’t see much changing. One possible solution is to hammer the university to a point where they can not be competitive for a long period of time, and then those behind the scenes people lose interest.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by XUGRAD80 View Post
    Ever heard the term “friends of the program”? I’m of the belief, from talking with people that are native to the community and the university..............that there have been, and still are, people with deep pockets and with political clout that have pretty much turned a blind eye to what has been happening there for years, and in some cases have actively engaged in questionable behavior in regards to UL athletics. I’m also of the belief that until those people are no longer part of the picture surround UL, things won’t change. It’s fine and dandy to remove coaches and administrators at the university, but unless the new coaches and administrators cut off access to the programs by those outside influencers, I don’t see much changing. One possible solution is to hammer the university to a point where they can not be competitive for a long period of time, and then those behind the scenes people lose interest.
    those people left with Jurich and Ramsey. Mack's a douchebag but hes not a cheat, and satterfield is about as good as they come from a moral standpoint for a major d 1 football coach. Louisville was dirty as hell (I'm of the opinion most big time college programs probably are) even papa john called it out in so many words. And I'm not talking just about the athletic programs either....its downright amazing Ramsey isnt in jail with the crap he was doing. However, no longer is that the case as those people left with jurich and Ramsey and those who didnt were asked to essentially leave.
    Last edited by Xville; 05-05-2020 at 08:28 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by xubrew View Post
    I'll rephrase.

    If they approach it a certain way, then I don't think they'll suffer nearly as big of a deathblow as I thought before the NOI. There was only one level 1 violation, and the NOI specifically mentioned the coaches. That's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.
    fair enough!

  4. #24
    Supporting Member XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xville View Post
    those people left with Jurich and Ramsey. Mack's a douchebag but hes not a cheat, and satterfield is about as good as they come from a moral standpoint for a major d 1 football coach. Louisville was dirty as hell (I'm of the opinion most big time college programs probably are) even papa john called it out in so many words. And I'm not talking just about the athletic programs either....its downright amazing Ramsey isnt in jail with the crap he was doing. However, no longer is that the case as those people left with jurich and Ramsey and those who didnt were asked to essentially leave.
    Well, I’m happy that you think that there are no bad apples still around the university and the athletic department. However as you must well know, Jefferson County has a population of 770,000 and the whole Louisville area is well over a million people. Not everyone in that area agrees with you.

    However, even if what you say is true, might there also be some merit to the idea that there is some value in preventive punishment? The idea that if the program is hammered hard enough that it might prevent these kind of things from happening again in the future? If the athletes there now are not guilty of anything, let them transfer with immediate eligibility.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by XUGRAD80 View Post
    Well, I’m happy that you think that there are no bad apples still around the university and the athletic department. However as you must well know, Jefferson County has a population of 770,000 and the whole Louisville area is well over a million people. Not everyone in that area agrees with you.

    However, even if what you say is true, might there also be some merit to the idea that there is some value in preventive punishment? The idea that if the program is hammered hard enough that it might prevent these kind of things from happening again in the future? If the athletes there now are not guilty of anything, let them transfer with immediate eligibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by XUGRAD80 View Post
    Well, I’m happy that you think that there are no bad apples still around the university and the athletic department. However as you must well know, Jefferson County has a population of 770,000 and the whole Louisville area is well over a million people. Not everyone in that area agrees with you.

    However, even if what you say is true, might there also be some merit to the idea that there is some value in preventive punishment? The idea that if the program is hammered hard enough that it might prevent these kind of things from happening again in the future? If the athletes there now are not guilty of anything, let them transfer with immediate eligibility.
    I mean, that's fine if they dont agree with me, most dont because more than half of louisville are uk fans and are going to believe whatever they want. I have friends in both the athletic and academic side, and I work closely with people in pretty big positions on the academic side. I'm not a louisville fan and dont have a dog in the fight, just telling you what I know from people I trust and work in all aspects of the school.

    In regards to the preventative punishment, I dunno. Hiw about hammering the individuals so they cant ever be in a position to work in athletics again, and/or fine the ever living hell out of them? I know what you are saying, and obviously I think louisville has to be punished, but I think preventative punishment should be on individual basis rather than an entire institution. I can see the argument for the other side though..regardless, Pitino coaching again is a joke, and petrino is coaching again...those two are just horrible human beings with no moral compass...no way they should be working with young adults.

    Sort of off topic but I'm so sick of the ncaa and all their bullshit and the way they pick and choose their punishments. UNC cheats for over a decade and gets zero, there is so.much smoke around duke it's not even funny and nothing...kansas has cheated their asses off since self got there. Missouri, who I am a fan of, has a tutor go rogue and helps a few football players take tests and the school gets hammered.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    I agree that the coaches and administrators involved should be punished by the NCAA and possibly even be permanently banned from working at any other NCAA member institution. Giving someone a couple of years ban, where they just go get a job overseas, in a pro league, or for a sponsor, and then come back to doing the same thing they were doing, but at a different school isn’t working. I don’t think anyone is saying that the whole institution should be punished. You don’t penalize the baseball team for the sins of a basketball coach. But what can the NCAA do to prevent a private individual or group from breaking their rules? They can’t punish them in any way. What they can do, and IMO need to do, is to set the example that if a member school does not actively work to prevent these private entities from breaking NCAA rules or influencing a member coach to do so, then the programs involved will be punished.

    So how do you punish them? The only real punishments are to hit them in the wallet and to take away their ability to compete or to be competitive. You fine them, you take money they have received back, you take away scholarships, you limit their ability to recruit, you take away their ability to participate, and if you’ve done all of those things and they still continue to break the rules, you disallow them to participate in NCAA competition completely. Ultimately it’s up to the institutions to police themselves and to actually follow the rules that they have agreed to compete under. The NCAA is a voluntary organization and it’s not a “right” to be a member. The NCAA has negotiated contracts with TV networks that are advantageous to all the members. But part of that is based on the idea that everyone competes under the same set of rules. As fans, we know that some schools have advantages that other schools do not, that some schools have more support, more money, better facilities, and larger fan bases. But we also expect that even if those schools have those things, they still have to compete with the “lesser” schools under one set of rules. Thus, we see where a school like X can actually compete on the BB court with a school like OSU on a somewhat even level. That’s really a major part of the purpose of the NCAA, to do what it can to make sure that the schools follow the rules they have agreed to. This idea of competitive balance is what has made the NCAA BB (and other sports) tournaments so popular. IMO it wouldn’t be near as popular if we thought that only a dozen or so schools actually had a chance of ever winning any games, because they where all playing under different rules than the rest of the members.

  7. #27
    Supporting Member bleedXblue's Avatar
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    I don't understand what the disconnect here is?

    The punishment needs to stay with the institution. They hired the coaches and administrators and any other employees. THEY had the opportunity to correct any issues, remove coaches, employees etc. once they learned of infractions or rules violations. Especially UL. Pitino should have been immediately fired with the strippergate debacle.

    Sure, punish the coaches and any other employee as well. But we see how this plays out. Look at Kelvim Sampson and Bruce Pearl. Making millions again coaching in the NCAA.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleedXblue View Post
    I don't understand what the disconnect here is?

    The punishment needs to stay with the institution. They hired the coaches and administrators and any other employees. THEY had the opportunity to correct any issues, remove coaches, employees etc. once they learned of infractions or rules violations. Especially UL. Pitino should have been immediately fired with the strippergate debacle.

    Sure, punish the coaches and any other employee as well. But we see how this plays out. Look at Kelvim Sampson and Bruce Pearl. Making millions again coaching in the NCAA.
    I dont think there is a disconnect...I agree that the institution should be punished, I'm just not sure about things like the death penalty, I think those kinds of punishments should be on the individual level. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people like pitino, petrino and pearl have jobs

  9. #29
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    The only way this rampant cheating stops is if another school gets the Death Penalty. If UL gets the DP, then UNC, Kansas, and others would SERIOUSLY rethink how they're doing business. Plus without Pitino there, we won't have to listen to Vitale whine about how his goombah got screwed.

  10. #30
    Supporting Member bleedXblue's Avatar
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    I do agree that the NCAA is part of the problem. Make the penalties for cheating so painful that they deter others from doing the same things. The academic scandal at NC is one that comes to mind.

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