Covid-19

[kmcrawfo]

"A Public Health England Technical briefing released in September 2021 entitled “SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England” has some findings that do not bode well for vaccine supporters. The numbers show vaccinated people contracted and died of the so-called “Delta” variant of Coronavirus at a far greater rate than unvaccinated people between February 1, 2021 and September 12, 2021.

During the time period in question, unvaccinated people reportedly accounted for 257,357 Delta cases out of 593,572 total Delta cases (approximately 43 percent), and 722 out of 2,542 Delta deaths (approximately 28 percent) “within 28 days of positive specimen date.” What does that mean? It means that the vast majority of Delta deaths in England during this period occurred among vaccinated people, NOT unvaccinated people."

Oh, you say that's the UK.... Well, here are the death rates among vaccinated individuals in Massachusetts in each of the last 7 weeks (versus all Covid deaths in the same time periods):

8/25/2021 --- 17.1%
9/1/2021 --- 26.5%
9/8/2021 --- 29.0%
9/15/2021 --- 40.5%
9/22/2021 --- 29.1%
9/29/2021 --- 38.5%
10/6/2021 --- 44.7%

That's not a pretty trend if you're a Fauci devotee....

Also, if you're planning to allow your 5-year-old to take the jab (or 28 year-old for that matter), you may want to note that Finland just joined Sweden and Denmark in limiting the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine.

https://nationalfile.com/uk-governme...inated-people/

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/co...onse-reporting

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/ma...d-individuals-

https://www.wsj.com/articles/some-eu...ne-11633610069

https://townhall.com/tipsheet//madel...ccine-n2597091

Anyone who knows me will say I am about as conservative and libertarian as they come. That being said the numbers posted above are of little value or worth. You cannot take one set of percentages or numbers and use them to defend a position or make a point. Even if those numbers above are 100% accurate, they in no way support the stance that vaccines are not effective.

The overwhelming evidence and belief is that vaccines are very effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths due to Covid. There’s no scientific evidence or data that exists that proves or supports the contrary.

That being said, for each age and risk stratification group the benefits of the vaccine are different. Clearly, the vaccine is more beneficial to the elderly versus the pediatric age group. As more of a specific population becomes vaccinated, you would expect the percentage of individuals who get and die of Covid will shift towards those that have been vaccinated. That’s just how it works. This in no way diminishes the effectiveness of the vaccines. If you use Xavier as a microcosm for this it would make sense. Currently 85 to 90% of Covid cases at Xavier are in the vaccinated population. However, 95% of faculty and 90% of students are vaccinated, so you would anticipate that most of the infections would be in a vaccinated population. Also, all those Who have been vaccinated have mild to no symptoms. On the other hand those who have not been vaccinated are having more severe symptoms sometimes requiring hospitalization. This is the trend across the country and all populations and medical systems.

Personally, I will not hesitate to vaccinate my eight-year-old and 11-year-old with the Pfizer vaccine once it is approved. I also would never give either of them the Moderna vaccine as it has a less friendly risk versus benefit ratio for that age group. That is why it is not being considered for approval in the United States.

I am not going to go down this rabbit hole with much of a discussion or debate on this message board., But those are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

[xu82]

Anyone who knows me will say I am about as conservative and libertarian as they come. That being said the numbers posted above are of little value or worth. You cannot take one set of percentages or numbers and use them to defend a position or make a point. Even if those numbers above are 100% accurate, they in no way support the stance that vaccines are not effective.

The overwhelming evidence and belief is that vaccines are very effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths due to Covid. There’s no scientific evidence or data that exists that proves or supports the contrary.

That being said, for each age and risk stratification group the benefits of the vaccine are different. Clearly, the vaccine is more beneficial to the elderly versus the pediatric age group. As more of a specific population becomes vaccinated, you would expect the percentage of individuals who get and die of Covid will shift towards those that have been vaccinated. That’s just how it works. This in no way diminishes the effectiveness of the vaccines. If you use Xavier as a microcosm for this it would make sense. Currently 85 to 90% of Covid cases at Xavier are in the vaccinated population. However, 95% of faculty and 90% of students are vaccinated, so you would anticipate that most of the infections would be in a vaccinated population. Also, all those Who have been vaccinated have mild to no symptoms. On the other hand those who have not been vaccinated are having more severe symptoms sometimes requiring hospitalization. This is the trend across the country and all populations and medical systems.

Personally, I will not hesitate to vaccinate my eight-year-old and 11-year-old with the Pfizer vaccine once it is approved. I also would never give either of them the Moderna vaccine as it has a less friendly risk versus benefit ratio for that age group. That is why it is not being considered for approval in the United States.

I am not going to go down this rabbit hole with much of a discussion or debate on this message board., But those are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

I wish this sensible post would put an end to this thread, but I know better. The endless stream of links that prove nothing will almost certainly continue. I also completely understand why you would not want to endure this futile battle of (mostly political) agendas with little regard for common sense.

Thank you! This was simple and refreshing.

[XU_Lou]

Anyone who knows me will say I am about as conservative and libertarian as they come. That being said the numbers posted above are of little value or worth. You cannot take one set of percentages or numbers and use them to defend a position or make a point. Even if those numbers above are 100% accurate, they in no way support the stance that vaccines are not effective.

The overwhelming evidence and belief is that vaccines are very effective at reducing hospitalizations and deaths due to Covid. There’s no scientific evidence or data that exists that proves or supports the contrary.

That being said, for each age and risk stratification group the benefits of the vaccine are different. Clearly, the vaccine is more beneficial to the elderly versus the pediatric age group. As more of a specific population becomes vaccinated, you would expect the percentage of individuals who get and die of Covid will shift towards those that have been vaccinated. That’s just how it works. This in no way diminishes the effectiveness of the vaccines. If you use Xavier as a microcosm for this it would make sense. Currently 85 to 90% of Covid cases at Xavier are in the vaccinated population. However, 95% of faculty and 90% of students are vaccinated, so you would anticipate that most of the infections would be in a vaccinated population. Also, all those Who have been vaccinated have mild to no symptoms. On the other hand those who have not been vaccinated are having more severe symptoms sometimes requiring hospitalization. This is the trend across the country and all populations and medical systems.

Personally, I will not hesitate to vaccinate my eight-year-old and 11-year-old with the Pfizer vaccine once it is approved. I also would never give either of them the Moderna vaccine as it has a less friendly risk versus benefit ratio for that age group. That is why it is not being considered for approval in the United States.

I am not going to go down this rabbit hole with much of a discussion or debate on this message board., But those are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.

kmcrawfo - I appreciate the comments. Let me offer a few comments and counter arguments.

#1) I totally agree the risk/reward calculation is different for each age group - as well as whether or not anyone has any of the comorbidities. Clearly this is a disease that is impacting the elderly and the obese, as well as those with a few other comorbidities. I agree, those groups should likely get the vax and boosters. This has been my overarching point on this thread all along, and the reason I posted this and many others over the past 18 months. Allow those at most risk to take the vax and do the things they need to do to reduce their exposure. The vaccines, lockdowns and other mitigation efforts should never have been forced on the entire population.

#2) Actually there is much data to support that the vaccines are not performing anywhere near as advertised. Look at the data for Israel, UK and Massachusetts. Unfortunately MASS is the only state that I'm aware of that reports on breakthrough cases. The CDC has been widely criticized for not reporting and/or collecting breakthrough data (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...h-cases-501821), which I believe was done purposely so that we (here and across the country) will continue to have this debate on whether the vaccines work or not.

#3) Whether or not the vaccines are waning over time, or do not work against Delta, is not clear to me at this point. Do we really know what percentage of all cases are Delta vs original? How is the variant being identified during the testing process? Either way, there is a problem with the vax. That is the point of my post here. We were told ad nauseum that the vaccines were our way out of this pandemic. Your point in paragraph 3 above would be 100% valid if this wave of cases and deaths were much smaller than the first big wave last winter. However, it's not. In fact it's almost the same. Fauci, the CDC and the media continue to tell us this is now a pandemic of the unvaxxed. Again, clearly it's not.

[boozehound]

I wish this sensible post would put an end to this thread, but I know better. The endless stream of links that prove nothing will almost certainly continue. I also completely understand why you would not want to endure this futile battle of (mostly political) agendas with little regard for common sense.

Thank you! This was simple and refreshing.

I think that there have been a few times in this thread that our resident Doctors have weighed in, but yet it still going strong. Fueled pretty much entirely by 2 guys at this point.

[xu82]

I think that there have been a few times in this thread that our resident Doctors have weighed in, but yet it still going strong. Fueled pretty much entirely by 2 guys at this point.

I thought the Doc was clear and concise, yet some people just need a hobby, I guess.

[Xville]

I thought the Doc was clear and concise, yet some people just need a hobby, I guess.

What is clear is that either he didn’t understand half of what the doc said, or is so wrapped up in his own unfounded opinion, that no matter what, he just can’t admit he is wrong. I guess both things can be true.

[Strange Brew]

What is clear is that either he didn’t understand half of what the doc said, or is so wrapped up in his own unfounded opinion, that no matter what, he just can’t admit he is wrong. I guess both things can be true.

Neither can you….

[Xville]

Neither can you….

Sure Mr Supreme court

[Strange Brew]

Sure Mr Supreme court

Thanks. I'm right about that as well. You just don't care to admit you're wrong.

[Xville]

Thanks. I'm right about that as well. You just don't care to admit you're wrong.

No you’re not, but feel free to believe that. There are multiple ways to figure that out, google is your friend. There’s no point in discussing anything with you, when you think lou is right most of the time.