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Thread: Covid-19

  1. #6221
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    Quote Originally Posted by principal View Post
    That was a really good response, thank you for that!
    Yeah it’s the response your third paragraph full of nonsense deserved.

  2. #6222
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun View Post
    The antibody treatment is standard of care for high risk people, but only works when given early. Did you know when given late or when symptoms are severe the outcomes are actually worse? The problem is people donÂ’t seek testing and treatment on day 1. They wait too long because they thought it was just a cold or allergies. And again, the vaccine is the most effective weapon we have so why are we continually focused on treatments that are less effective, more costly, and more of a strain to the healthcare system? This is a deadly respiratory virus. Preventing transmission is and always will be the focus of the disease.
    I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this..and you kind of keep avoiding certain issues and straw-manning others. But I am a sucker, so I'll comment further...

    I take your position to be very either/or, why can't the government, health professionals, and the media push both the vaccine and other treatments? I would like to see this now, but it was especially true before the vaccine was available - go home until you cannot breath and then go to the hospital (and for those who are not infected, well, hope you don't get sick before the vaccine is available). Now that it is available, why not try something for those who become ill, whether vaccinated or not? A lot of people are still being told to go home until they cannot breath, until it is too late for treatment, and then go to the hospital. This does not make sense.

    I do not know why you have brought up those with severe symptoms and those who didn't seek testing and treatment early. "By definition" I am not referring to such people. I am referring to those who tested positive and were told to go home until they cannot breath. Such people do not have severe symptoms (else they would not have been told to go home until they have severe symptoms) and they did not fail to be tested early (again, they would not have been told to go home until they had severe symptoms if they already had them). What about the people who did test early and were told to go home until they could not breath (and are still being given the same advice, even with antibody treatment available), until it was too late for treatment?

    As for the vaccine being the most effective treatment, cheapest, and least burdensome: Are there no other concerns? What about safety?
    How much should we inject and how safe is it to do so? What does the data say about the long term affects of the first round? How about the booster in six to eight months? What if another booster is called for six months out? And of course we have the Pfizer pills coming! Why do we follow the science in regards to the short term advantage of the vaccines but pretend science does not matter in regards to the long term?

    These are strange times.

  3. #6223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xville View Post
    Geezus. Did you steal Lou’s identity? You know what else is really effective? Getting a vaccine.
    They are not mutually exclusive. Why would you think they are? Many vaxxed are still getting COVID and requiring treatment. In fact FL released data on mAb by hospital showing up to 70% were vaxxed.
    "...treat 'em with respect, or get out of the Gym!"

  4. #6224
    Supporting Member paulxu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smails View Post
    Paul?
    Bump

    Quote Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
    Your question is not phrased in a way that allows for a direct answer.
    Do I think states should be able to mandate vaccines for children to attend public schools? Yes I do.
    Do you still have a "choice?" Well, sure, you can choose not to have your child vaccinated, and send them to a private school that doesn't require vaccines.
    Actually, in Ohio, even that may not work. I think all schools are required to have children vaccinated.
    Maybe home school?
    ...he went up late, and I was already up there.

  5. #6225
    Junior Lloyd Braun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by principal View Post
    I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this..and you kind of keep avoiding certain issues and straw-manning others. But I am a sucker, so I'll comment further...

    I take your position to be very either/or, why can't the government, health professionals, and the media push both the vaccine and other treatments? I would like to see this now, but it was especially true before the vaccine was available - go home until you cannot breath and then go to the hospital (and for those who are not infected, well, hope you don't get sick before the vaccine is available). Now that it is available, why not try something for those who become ill, whether vaccinated or not? A lot of people are still being told to go home until they cannot breath, until it is too late for treatment, and then go to the hospital. This does not make sense.

    I do not know why you have brought up those with severe symptoms and those who didn't seek testing and treatment early. "By definition" I am not referring to such people. I am referring to those who tested positive and were told to go home until they cannot breath. Such people do not have severe symptoms (else they would not have been told to go home until they have severe symptoms) and they did not fail to be tested early (again, they would not have been told to go home until they had severe symptoms if they already had them). What about the people who did test early and were told to go home until they could not breath (and are still being given the same advice, even with antibody treatment available), until it was too late for treatment?

    As for the vaccine being the most effective treatment, cheapest, and least burdensome: Are there no other concerns? What about safety?
    How much should we inject and how safe is it to do so? What does the data say about the long term affects of the first round? How about the booster in six to eight months? What if another booster is called for six months out? And of course we have the Pfizer pills coming! Why do we follow the science in regards to the short term advantage of the vaccines but pretend science does not matter in regards to the long term?

    These are strange times.
    I have been fairly outspoken on both but they aren’t on equal playing fields. Treatment for disease pales in comparison to prevention. That goes for infectious disease, cardiovascular disease, really any disease.

    The people you refer to that are high risk and tested early have the option of antibody treatment. I think you may be out of touch with standard of care.
    The people that are not high risk are told to go home because there is a very large chance that they will not be hospitalized. You want everyone to be given antibody treatment? I’m not really sure what your point is?

    If you are going to continue to question the vaccine’s safety at this point there is not anything that will convince you otherwise. Sure there are always concerns but any concerns are far outweighed by concerns with the effects of the virus on an individual and societal basis. I implore you to find any long term effects from vaccines.

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