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Thread: Fire travis

  1. #291
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    I see truth in both comments of XUGRAD80 and GoMuskies. First of all, XUGRAD80 (without ever having to resort, even once, to paragraph spacing) made a solid case for the university and all of us who are fans of this team, to extend Steele the same loyalty and professionalism he has displayed to us. Steele started low in this university's basketball organization and rose to lead it through hard work and dedication---qualities other coaches haven't always displayed. It doesn't feel good to read that we're going to give him a couple of years and then, if results aren't where they should be, he gets the hook. Let's give the man a little space to right the ship. And, let's realize that we are lucky to have him. You want a sleezebag like Bruce Pearl? Or maybe a Jerry Tarkanian or perhaps a basketball version of Bobby Petrino? None of the posters on this board want that, I'm pretty certain.

    Be that as it may, GoMuskies, I think, also has it correct. This message board is pretty tame when compared to similar boards of other schools. This thread is poorly titled as its originator previously admitted. The vast majority of the posts contained herein addressed valid (in my opinion) criticisms of our team's play and coaching without complete attribution to Coach Steele. And, many of the posts here, even those critical of specific players and coaches, are thoughtful and detailed. So, i give this board a pretty high grade and a high grade to the posters---even to the ones who ignore grammatical concepts like paragraphs.

    I argue that this board and similar vehicles which allow fans to comment (positively or negatively) are healthy and are a net benefit to the team. Its true, things can get out of hand. I recall some racially tinged comments on the UGA football board, directed toward Justin Fields after the 2018 UGA-Alabama game. But, I don't recall ever seeing anything, on this board, that comes close to that. Many of the posters on this board joined it years ago and are long time, dedicated followers of X basketball. Many are alumni. This board allows them to converse electronically about something that is important to them. And, in so doing, it helps them to remain connected to this team and this university. I can't imagine GoMuskie has many opportunities to discuss this team with his friends out in Wichita. So, exactly where did you go to college? Eggzavyour you said? Where on earth is Eggzavyour?

    And, while you might be offended at the timetable put forth by DRUDY23 in regard to Coach Steele's future employment, I don't believe that he's far off the mark given some circumstances. Men's basketball at XU is the tip of the spear, so to speak. I am told this team's success (or lack thereof) directly affects both enrollments and financial contributions every single year. I understand if you don't think a sports program should be that critical to an institution. But, my sources tell me, at X, it is. Think about it for, oh say, five seconds. Why, on earth, do you think a basketball coach is paid well into seven figures while a tenured economics professor or even the head of the College of Nursing makes far, far less? We all know the answer. It is because the basketball program, like it or not, has an outsize influence on everything at Xavier. That being the case, you can expect the pressure to perform is very high on our coach. It comes with the job. It just is.

    For me and I think many others on this board, it would be wonderful if Travis Steele becomes our Mark Few. Others have noted just how important coaching stability is to building a great program. We are suffering today because Chris Mack left for Louisville. As frustrating as the play of this year's team has been, I have to believe this year (and last) are a baptism under fire that, in future years will benefit Steele and this basketball program. But, yes, if you are a true and loyal fan, it has been painful to watch. Very painful.
    Last edited by Jumpin_Jamal_Forever; 01-17-2020 at 04:43 PM.

  2. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterofreality View Post
    I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
    Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
    Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
    And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.
    That is an interesting case. I'd be curious who you think we would bring in.

    I agree that you want to preserve the "Brand" but I don't think we are at that point yet. Occasionally missing the tournament 1-2 years is a common occurrence for just about every program. We had a good recruiting class this year and a good one next year, so there is young talent in the program.

    If Christopher is looking at this in the same way and think he has options, then do what you need to do. I just think it is too early to give up on Steele.

  3. #293
    Sophomore XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterofreality View Post
    I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
    Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
    Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
    And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.
    Is that the ďButler WayĒ?

  4. #294
    Supporting Member AviatorX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterofreality View Post
    I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
    Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
    Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
    And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.
    Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since you’re just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Miller’s leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Miller’s staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.
    Last edited by AviatorX; 01-17-2020 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #295
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AviatorX View Post
    Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since youíre just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Millerís leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Millerís staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.
    Yeah that is a bad comparison. MOR has no idea what happened to that guy and I wish it on no one. Guy has been seen from, let alone be involved with basketball. Last I heard he doesnít even leave his parents house. Not sure what happened but either way it is sad.

  6. #296
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    Keep thinking about this thread.

    I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

    That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji arenít here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I wonít say itís all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

    These are the bad times.

  7. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    Keep thinking about this thread.

    I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

    That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji aren’t here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I won’t say it’s all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

    These are the bad times.
    I do think the BE dips next year some. Both Powell and Howard gone. Two prolific scorers. I will be excited to see some youth and a new era of XU bball. Expectations will be lower and you just never know. This program has surprised before.

  8. #298
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muethibp View Post
    Keep thinking about this thread.

    I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

    That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji arenít here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I wonít say itís all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

    These are the bad times.
    You would have to let him stay. Because you let him go after year three you lose at least one player and your recruiting class. Now you are looking at 6 years with no tournament. Go young next year and keep building and Xavier will be at the top again before long. Xavier has the 15th rated recruiting class and a couple of really good shooters who are tearing up it. They will be adding some basketball players with higher basketball IQís. They will also have another top 20 class for 2021. In addition you have two big dudes, one 6í11, who will also he big contributors down the road. Not seeing this thing through to until 2023 would be bad for Xavier in my opinion. When the current group is seniors Xavier will be a loaded group with the talent they will have. You canít blame Travis for everything because Chris Mack still had a hand in the problem. Then you look at Chris Mack and he should thank Pitino for setting him up to succeed. Chris Mackís decisions play big into Xavierís sophomore, junior and senior classes. For example he could have had Jordan Norwa and Xavier Simpson at Xavier, but took Gooding and Harden instead. The year before he left he lost of bunch of dudes who were Xavier leans because people thought he would leave so Xavier basically had no class.

  9. #299
    Voice of Reason Masterofreality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AviatorX View Post
    Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since you’re just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Miller’s leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Miller’s staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.
    Uh, who's making stuff up??

    In 2013, Gardner Webb had their school record for victories in a season-21. They had been abjectly horrible before and had just gotten into D1. They only went to the CIT because they lost in their conference tournament in a one bid league. The CIT was Gardner Webb's first post season appearance in HISTORY. Holtmann won Big South Coach of the Year in 2013and was given a contract extension by Gardner-Webb. All of this, and yet, when he was offered an ASSISTANTS job at Butler (allegedly), not the HC job, he accepted on JULY,15, 2013. Why would a guy who was building a program and had just been given a 5 year guaranteed extension, and was the HEAD GUY leave to be a second chair? Because Barry Collier was smart and had secret doubts about Miller that manifested after a 14-17 season. I repeat. WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP, AVIATOR??
    A quick end to the Butler decline. What will happen at X?
    "I Got CHAMPIONS in that Lockerroom!" -Stanley Burrell

  10. #300
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    I’ve read several posts stating we can’t fire Steele because we’ll lose players/recruits. That may happen, but that myopic thinking can lead to much greater problems. A long term slump with a bad coach could devastate the brand. The head coach continuity may be good for the short term, but only the short term. While certainly no one wants to lose players, what is important is that the brand remains in-tact long term. Plus a new hire will bring recruits and possibly players with him, and a good hire may be able to convince current players and recruits to stay.

    Don’t interpret this as my wanting Steele fired - he should have through next season as I’ve stated. But any decision should NOT be made out of a fear for losing players or recruits, whenever it’s made.
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