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Thread: Coach Steele

  1. #301
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    I don't see the excitement with star 3 guards next year as it takes time for frosh to be productive unless you are UK and Duke.

    XU's top 25 class this year produced 1 significant contributor (Freemantle) and 2 frosh big men (Miles and Ramsey) bench warmers, a scorer who is slowly learning (Tandy) and of course a kid who is home sick (Bishop).

    On paper, Odom looks amazing, but he will need at least 20 games to learn defense and plays.

    Carter, Miles, Freemantle, Ramsey and maybe a transfer will be next year's front line. Hoping they are stars.

    At X, we are spoiled by success. 2nd all time scorer made 3 pointers very smoothly but that type of player comes every 8 years.

    We shall see....

  2. #302
    Supporting Member AviatorX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterofreality View Post
    Uh, who's making stuff up??

    In 2013, Gardner Webb had their school record for victories in a season-21. They had been abjectly horrible before and had just gotten into D1. They only went to the CIT because they lost in their conference tournament in a one bid league. The CIT was Gardner Webb's first post season appearance in HISTORY. Holtmann won Big South Coach of the Year in 2013and was given a contract extension by Gardner-Webb. All of this, and yet, when he was offered an ASSISTANTS job at Butler (allegedly), not the HC job, he accepted on JULY,15, 2013. Why would a guy who was building a program and had just been given a 5 year guaranteed extension, and was the HEAD GUY leave to be a second chair? Because Barry Collier was smart and had secret doubts about Miller that manifested after a 14-17 season. I repeat. WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP, AVIATOR??
    A quick end to the Butler decline. What will happen at X?
    There’s obviously no point in discussing this with someone who has built an entire conspiracy narrative in their own head, so let’s leave it here.

    I’ll just say that the Brandon Miller situation is really sad and not the kind of thing that should fuel conspiracy coaching change speculation.

    Also the Butler decline was very much back on post-Holtmann until it all of the sudden wasn’t. It’s almost like things are cyclical at programs that don’t recruit at the very top of the food chain with NBA guys who are ready to make a big impact day one.
    Last edited by AviatorX; 01-18-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  3. #303
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton View Post
    I’ve read several posts stating we can’t fire Steele because we’ll lose players/recruits. That may happen, but that myopic thinking can lead to much greater problems. A long term slump with a bad coach could devastate the brand. The head coach continuity may be good for the short term, but only the short term. While certainly no one wants to lose players, what is important is that the brand remains in-tact long term. Plus a new hire will bring recruits and possibly players with him, and a good hire may be able to convince current players and recruits to stay.

    Don’t interpret this as my wanting Steele fired - he should have through next season as I’ve stated. But any decision should NOT be made out of a fear for losing players or recruits, whenever it’s made.
    Next year will not be great so you will need more patience than that. You will basically be playing nothing but one senior and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. You have to get to 4 years to make any kind of decision. The only thing next will bring, assuming both Paul and Naji leave, is future potential, but the wins most likely won’t be great regardless of who the coach is. I am not happy with how the year is going but you have to let Travis coach through it and if and when this years freshman are juniors you will be able to make a sound decision on the state of the program. Travis was left with a couple of ball dominant players with low basketball IQ, an undersized center that cant shoot two feet from the basket and a point guard that can’t shoot. That’s a tough hand when you are playing in one of the toughest leagues in the country. People need some perspective. The fact that he got last years group to 9 big east wins and nearly a conference tourney final appearance should count for something. People act like he was given the keys to a Mercedes. But hey people were ready to fire Sean and Chris as well, so I guess it’s what people do.

  4. #304
    Supporting Member GIMMFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierj View Post
    Next year will not be great so you will need more patience than that. You will basically be playing nothing but one senior and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. You have to get to 4 years to make any kind of decision. The only thing next will bring, assuming both Paul and Naji leave, is future potential, but the wins most likely won’t be great regardless of who the coach is. I am not happy with how the year is going but you have to let Travis coach through it and if and when this years freshman are juniors you will be able to make a sound decision on the state of the program. Travis was left with a couple of ball dominant players with low basketball IQ, an undersized center that cant shoot two feet from the basket and a point guard that can’t shoot. That’s a tough hand when you are playing in one of the toughest leagues in the country. People need some perspective. The fact that he got last years group to 9 big east wins and nearly a conference tourney final appearance should count for something. People act like he was given the keys to a Mercedes. But hey people were ready to fire Sean and Chris as well, so I guess it’s what people do.
    Very reasonable take, and one I agree with completely, obviously we thought the Core 4 would take a step up, and they really haven't, they don't compliment each other well with their skill sets, so it leads to a lot of frustration, I think once Travis continues to to recruit hard and get an idea of how he wants to play with recruits that exemplify that, it'll be an easier transition. You're right though, it's going to take a couple years. Unfortunately we aren't Duke or UK where we have 5* freshman chomping at the bits to come here, so rebuilds are going to be just part of it from time to time.

  5. #305
    I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line. Duke fans are spoiled, North Carolina and Kentucky
    fans are spoiled, Xavier is Xavier. Until we reach a final four, and win a national championship we are anything but spoiled. I don’t care about how far X has come from the past, I care about the future! I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport. If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about. I don’t want Travis fired just yet, but if we as alumni and fans should be okay with losing because we got a 1 seed once, then I call bs.

  6. #306
    When just one isnt enough X-band '01's Avatar
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    At least this season Carolina is not spoiled.

  7. #307
    Voice of Reason Masterofreality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AviatorX View Post
    There’s obviously no point in discussing this with someone who has built an entire conspiracy narrative in their own head, so let’s leave it here.

    I’ll just say that the Brandon Miller situation is really sad and not the kind of thing that should fuel conspiracy coaching change speculation.

    Also the Butler decline was very much back on post-Holtmann until it all of the sudden wasn’t. It’s almost like things are cyclical at programs that don’t recruit at the very top of the food chain with NBA guys who are ready to make a big impact day one.
    Oh, yeah, there's a point. You obviously are too thick headed to see the point.
    Barry Collier hired a young, unproven coach. He had a backup plan in place, QUICKLY in case it didn't work. His backup plan was somehow being able to convince a up and coming HEAD COACH at a lesser program to come to Butler as an Assistant. Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance, and "allegedly" a Medical Condition that no one knows what of. As opposed to you're inaccurate statement of The Butler decline was very much back on- post Holtmann until all of a sudden it wasn't, Butler went 23-11 in Holtmann's first year as HC, so what does that comment even mean? Holtmann then went 22-11 and 25-9 before he was hired away by Ohio State. That's some, errrrrrr, cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. The year before Miller, Butler was 27-9. Lavall Jordan, in his first year had nothing like Steele had coming back. Today, they are right now Number 5 in the Country. Oh, yeah. That, too is some "Butler decline" -for a year. You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about or saying.

    The overriding point is this. In you're twisted words- Brandon Miller was the young hot coaching hire until he wasn't-within a year and a half. Travis Steele was the young hot coaching hire until he....??? We can only hope that Greg Christopher has such a backup plan if this Steele hire doesn't work. We all thought that an experienced former Head Coach on the bench last year and even more this year would have helped Steele. It didn't happen even though they had a chance to hire one after Jeremy Growe left. Now we still have an inexperienced staff and an inexperienced Head Coach. Xavier's full identity is based upon basketball, as is Butler's. Collier controlled the Butler brand. Can Christopher?
    Last edited by Masterofreality; 01-18-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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  8. #308
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehoya View Post
    I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line. Duke fans are spoiled, North Carolina and Kentucky
    fans are spoiled, Xavier is Xavier. Until we reach a final four, and win a national championship we are anything but spoiled. I don’t care about how far X has come from the past, I care about the future! I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport. If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about. I don’t want Travis fired just yet, but if we as alumni and fans should be okay with losing because we got a 1 seed once, then I call bs.
    Agree totally.

    And I believe most X fans stand with you.

    The plan is about the final 2%. He deserves time and his opportunity to get us there.

    I will go so far as to say that the upcoming Georgetown game is huge for a couple of reasons:

    1. We simply need to win, especially at home;

    2. They’ve had time to work on their game and make some adjustments to position themselves for victories. We need to see that.
    X A V I E R

  9. #309
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterofreality View Post
    You obviously are too thick headed to see the point.
    Barry Collier hired a young, unproven coach. He had a backup plan in place, QUICKLY in case it didn't work. His backup plan was somehow being able to convince a up and coming HEAD COACH at a lesser program to come to Butler as an Assistant. Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance. As opposed to you're inaccurate statement of The Butler decline was very much back on- post Holtmann until all of a sudden it wasn't, Butler went 23-11 in Holtmann's first year as HC, so what does that comment even mean? Holtmann then went 22-11 and 25-9 before he was hired away by Ohio State. That's some, errrrrrr, cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. I guess it was a one year and done cycle. The year before Miller, Butler was 27-9. Oh, yeah. That, too is some "Butler decline". You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about or saying.

    The overriding point is this. In you're twisted words- Brandon Miller was the young hot coaching hire until he wasn't-within a year and a half. Travis Steele was the young hot coaching hire until he....??? We can only hope that Greg Christopher has such a backup plan if this Steele hire doesn't work. Xavier's full identity is based upon basketball, as is Butler's. Collier controlled the Butler brand. Can Christopher?
    You would have wanted to fire Butlers coach last year, they were not good and had a losing record. The year before they were a mediocre 21-14 and 9-9 in conference. We will see how they end up this year but next year they will take a hit after they lose their two best players and not a ton coming back or in. Baldwin will be very hard for them to replace.

  10. #310
    Sophomore XUGRAD80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehoya View Post
    I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line.........I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport.........If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about.......

    And THAT my friend is EXACTLY the attitude that could be called “spoiled”. That last line.

    There’s a HECK OF A LOT MORE than just being at a point where a school is a national championship contender caliber. To imply THAT is the only reason to have an intercollegiate program demeans the efforts of virtually 99% of the universities in the land and all but one Xavier University squad that has ever competed. To TRY to be the best that are capable of being in ALL we can ask of the program. If that means being a national championship contender, great! But I’m certainly not going to demean those teams that never had that in them, yet worked hard and did what they could to reach the level their talents would allow them to. If Xavier never makes a final 4, never is a #1 seed again, and never wins a NC, yet continues to represent the university with class, continues to graduate its players, continues to produce people that we can all be proud of...I’ll remain a fan forever. My friend, THAT is what it is really all about.

    You might not like it when people that have been fans longer than you have been alive think of others as “spoiled” by the success that Xavier has enjoyed over the last 20 years. Maybe it’s not a very accurate term. Perhaps describing them as “ having their priorities wrong” is a better term?

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