It sucks to suck

Xavier · 02-13-2019, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by boozehound

Add poor defense to that, which I also think coaching plays a significant role in.

This is not a good year. Hopefully Steele is the guy, because if he isn't it could be a long road back. What we are living through right now is, IMO, the difference between the Big East and the A10. This is our first coaching change in the Big East, and it is proving to be a tough transition. We don't get to play Fordham, St. Bonaventure, and Duquesne, which means if things start to go wrong, you can lose A LOT of games. This is probably a better team that Miller's initial team that went 17-12 or Skip's first season where we went 13-15, but the results are likely to be worse (depending on how you view them) due to the higher level of competition.

Where it could get really ugly (although I don't think it will) is if Steele is genuinely a bad hire this could end up being a 5-6 year slump. 3 years of Steele followed by 2-3 years for the next guy to rebuild.

Exactly this. It was way easier to learn how to be a head coach in the A-10. Getting a first year head coach with the talent lost from last years team in the Big East was always going to be a difficult task (though, almost nothing changes my minimum expectation with X bball: Make the tournament).

I will say the history of success and being arguably the 2nd/3rd best program (right now) in the Big East has me less worried about the collapse of this program even if Steele isn't the guy. Good coaches and talented players will still see the opportunity Xavier presents. Fail on that hire though...who knows.

**GoMuskies** · 02-13-2019, 09:22 AM

I would be more comforted by this if the Big East didn't blow goats this year.

Caf · 02-13-2019, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by xubrew

Oregon was a Final Four team, but they were a #3 seed

Ah yeah you're right. 2016 they were the 1. Got the years mixed up.

Caf · 02-13-2019, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by xubrew

I was wondering that too. I can't think of any examples.

The closest I can think of is Calipari at Memphis, but they were a 2.

**Xville** · 02-13-2019, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Caf

The closest I can think of is Calipari at Memphis, but they were a 2.

So I just looked because I thought it happened to Kentucky and it did. In 11-12 they were actually the number one overall seed and the following year they were in the NIT with Nerlens Noel and co....though I am pretty sure Noel got injured toward the end of the season.

It happened to Indiana...2013 one seed...following year 17 wins.

So..those are about as blue blood as you can get (I know Indiana isn't what they once were but historically they are a blue blood)

Anyways, it happens to the best of "us."

**X-band '01** · 02-13-2019, 09:37 AM

I think Duke was a 2 seed in 1994 and reached the national title game, then the following year Duke finished in the cellar of the ACC. That was back when Coach K had back surgery and all the Ls in conference play got handed to Pete Gaudet.

**xubrew** · 02-13-2019, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Xville

So I just looked because I thought it happened to Kentucky and it did. In 11-12 they were actually the number one overall seed and the following year they were in the NIT with Nerlens Noel and co....though I am pretty sure Noel got injured toward the end of the season.

It happened to Indiana...2013 one seed...following year 17 wins.

So..those are about as blue blood as you can get (I know Indiana isn't what they once were but historically they are a blue blood)

Anyways, it happens to the best of "us."

What I was looking at is examples of coaches leaving programs the season after they earned a #1 seed. In all those cases the coaches were still there, and although they all missed the tournament, none were last place teams.

Kansas was the national runner up in 2003, which was Roy Williams's last season, but they were a #2 seed.

Memphis was a #3 seed in Calipari's last year. Now, they would have hands down been the #1 ranked team going into the following season had they retained that recruiting class, so I guess that kind of counts, but they still weren't a #1 seeded team that lost their coach. (EDIT: My mistake. They were a #2 seed)

I can't think of a single example where that has happened. So, what we are experiencing right now is kind of a first.

**D-West & PO-Z** · 02-13-2019, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

I would be more comforted by this if the Big East didn't blow goats this year.

True but it is still way better than the A10. As bad as DePaul has been they aren't Duquesne, Fordham, Bonaventure. There arent any bottom feeders. And Lunardi has 5 BE teams in the tourney right now. That seems optimistic to me but the bubble is always super weak.

**Xville** · 02-13-2019, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by xubrew

What I was looking at is examples of coaches leaving programs the season after they earned a #1 seed. In all those cases the coaches were still there, and although they all missed the tournament, none were last place teams.

Kansas was the national runner up in 2003, which was Roy Williams's last season, but they were a #2 seed.

Memphis was a #3 seed in Calipari's last year. Now, they would have hands down been the #1 ranked team going into the following season had they retained that recruiting class, so I guess that kind of counts, but they still weren't a #1 seeded team that lost their coach.

I can't think of a single example where that has happened. So, what we are experiencing right now is kind of a first.

Gotcha. Well, someone had to be the first in this department....might as well be X. We can also be the first team to have it happen and then make the final four the following year or two with the new coach. Stranger things have happened :)