40 Years Since Bob Staak Started

[Masterofreality]

Just want to post this as salve for the Saturday wound:

Especially for those SucKS cretins that keep posting that they've ruled this City.

Last 40 years since Bob Staak 1st year.
Xavier 23 wins
UC 17 wins
First year X coaching winners:
Mack
Gillen
Staak
First year X coaching losers:
Prosser
Matta
Miller
Steele
First year uc Coaching losers:
Yates
Huggins
Kennedy
Conclusions:
Xavier has been more than competitive in this series, and actually better, for 4 decades.
1st year coaches do not do well.
By the way. F-ing Golfer/Alleged Coach Tay Baker lost all 6 games straight to SucKS so the all-time series would be a LOT closer if that guy had never been hired.

[xudash]

I'm glad you posted that MOR.

I've been a little reflective since Saturday's loss, and your post got me thinking about the long view again and where we're headed. The warning here is that everything I type from here on in this post may be a tad rambled.

At any rate, here we go:

1. The Game Itself

To the untrained eye (i.e. no personal experience at playing the sport), it was an absolute mess. I'm in no position to address what went wrong technically or from a coach's vantage point, but it just seemed as though this Xavier team folded in the second half. I understand that there were 3 transfers and some freshmen who had never experienced this game before, let alone in Clifton where the UC faithful were gathered for revenge in their remodeled warehouse, but excuses won't work here. Preparation was still available through coaching emphasis and even having them watch video clips of Shootouts past, etc. Is it truly a fundamental lack of overall talent, this team not meshing together yet, a rookie coach and his staff still finding their way, or some combination of all the above? We'll see if there is still some hope for the season from here, in particular as this squad takes on the balance of its OOC schedule. MIZZOU has become a must win in my book.


2. The Program's Future

There are internal and external factors at play in this one, as always. The one thing I'm focused on the most on this topic today is the announcement out of New York that Val Ackerman, et al have secured MSG on a fixed, hard basis for the next decade for the BET. You may or may not know that there was an opt-out provision in the deal - you do know that had you read all the news concerning the announcement. Not any more. Delaney and Swofford now have to sit there and eat it for 10 years. But it's bigger than the MSG contract itself, because that is itself a cornerstone to the attractiveness of the league overall, and that will translate into and impact the next media rights deal. A key, massive external factor - CONFERENCE AFFILIATION AND STRENGTH - almost could not be better positioned as we move forward from here.

The key internal factor at this point obviously is the coaching staff. I believe in Travis Steele. I"m all-in with him. With the recruiting prowess he's already demonstrated and with the growth I believe he'll achieve as he moves forward in THE CHAIR I believe we'll nail the final 2%. Having noted that, I trust by now that anyone reading this will never doubt again the importance of continuity when it comes to a coaching staff and continuity's impact on recruiting. Seriously, I'm now thinking that we missed on the 2018 class not because we were full up with talent already, but because other coaching staffs were whispering to recruits that UL was in serious turmoil and that Pitino's days were numbered and that it was a foregone conclusion that Mack would leave Victory Parkway to take that job. Out goes Mack and Murray, et al and the turmoil ensued. As a key point in all this, thank God we were able to retain Jenkins. Continuity? It is not the be all, end all thing, but ask Gonzaga fans how it has worked out for them with Mark Few. Can we do it now with Steele where we couldn't do it with one of our own? Actually, I think we can, because Steele married into a major Xavier family. HIS wife is from Cincinnati this time around. Who knows, but we'll see. Five years down the road from here if he is as good as I hope most of us think he will be, the landscape may be such that the Xavier program is even that much stronger than it is today.


3. Gratefully Spoiled Fanbase

We've had a lot of success. There is no other way to see it. That is true even in the face of the missing 2%. So the Mack departure has caused us to tack the boat and move forward in choppier waters for a little bit. Saturday and the blown chance against Auburn and the blown lead against SDSU and the sporadic play overall are all reminders that we're in a brave new world for this season, in particular. None of this means that we can't want the team to do their very best. It's Steele's job to extract that from them, as he otherwise figures out the best player combinations and schemes to put out there. But most of you cautioned us about expecting too much from this version of Xavier basketball, at least initially.

On that note, I'll go full circle and hope that Steele can still mold this unit into a reasonably effective team for the balance of the season, knowing that Pepto-Bismol will be good to have around, while also believing that the future is bright.

The trend line from Tay to Travis has been solidly up.

The final 2% by 2020/21.

[Masterofreality]

Although we were all hopeful in the summer, the fact is that Mack's last few mediocre recruiting classes have come home to roost. We have two sophomores only playing any meaningful minutes, there is no long term Senior Leadership and our bench is grad transfers and non-impact frosh. Grad transfers that Travis was forced to go out & get late because of a dearth in the program. There were obviously signs, that many of us did not want to see with this LouiSewer thing , but the fact that it has been credibly reported that Mack met with LouiSewer reps in New York last year during the BE Tournament, meant that there was more than just smoke out there in the landscape for a long time. I was amazed that a kid that we supposedly had locked up-between us and Rhode Island, decided to go to Rhodee, even though Hurley wasn't exactly solid there. Can only say that Mack/Murray (who was responsible for the East Coast) err, "Coasted" the last few. And, yeah, continuity has ALWAYS been overly important. Xavier has been incredibly fortunate over the last 40 years with all of the changes. I don't buy this "stay in one place too long and your stale" trash

This team has blown all of it's high profile chances for big non-conference wins that we have gotten for years. Rolled at home by Wisconsin, rolled on the road by the Darkside, and blew a game vs SD State because of "loss of focus". I don't know if we can beat Missouri, but at best we're gonna be 9-4 going into the league. Even if we get to 9-9, which is very questionable given this performance so far, that means only 18 wins and a probable Wednesday first game in the BE Tourney. Anybody remotely thinking that X has a chance to make the Dance based upon this team's shooting/focus/defensive issues is seeing unicorns and leprechauns. I'm hoping for an NIT bid at this point.

Finally, this doesn't mean I'm down on Travis or the overall program long term, but short (two year) term my expectations are not high. I'm where I was when Matta left after 2004. Miller went 17-12 and only got to 21 wins and the Dance the next year by luckily having the A10 Tourney in Cincy and won 4 games in 4 days after Chaney & Temple got magically knocked out in the 3rd Round by St. Joes. We almost lost to Charlotte in the 2nd Round of that A10 Tourney that year then got to play Fordham who had upset LaSalle (who was 18-10 that year and 10-6 in the league) & who had Steve Smith, Jermaine Thomas & Darnell Harris. We were very close to not having any postseason tournament for two straight years. We're gonna be depending A LOT on freshmen next year too after losing these grad transfers. If Harden doesn't get time, he may transfer too which kills even more depth next year. I thhink we will be tough as hell in Paul Scruggs and Naji's Senior year, but until then, buckle up for some lessons.

[Muskie]

I think most of us recognize the value of continuity. In our case, it wasn't possible as we didn't have the money from either the University, Donors, or a combination thereof to pay what Lousiville was willing to pay Mack. I've posted several times that the move to the Big East was great for the University, but that we fans had to be willing to participate at a higher level financially (within our own means individually). I'm loathed to tell anyone how to spend their hard earned money, but the revenue and donations needed to promote continuity and consistency on a yearly basis in the Big East will only continue to increase. Need evidence? Look at Marquette's new accommodations or the practice facilities at Georgetown. So it's one thing to say "pay the man" or "Pay the woman", it's another to get people to open their wallets.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah. I can't fault any donors too much. The school was willing to go to $3 mil to keep Mack, but LouiSewer just is spending crazy money including over $15 million to buy out other coaches plus paying XU $4.5 mill to buy out Mack. Then paying him what they're paying him. Mack was going no matter what. That was wife dictated. It made no difference.

Xavier did what it could do in the context of the other financial things they are trying to do- A) Get the Endowment up, B) Get the HUB built. C) Get a possible new Dorm where the potential hotel was going to go. I like our perspective, but hope that there are more Fat Cats out there that appreciate the X mission.

[whopper]

As a Xavier parent(2 recent grads) and a Catholic HS parent of grads(2) I try to stretch each year for a 4 figure donation (at least combined..the schools have given me and them a lot of academic and athletic pleasure). By the same token I worked a second job 2 x per week as adjunct faculty, drive 2001 and 2003 cars and have never left the country so I do scrimp. I wish they did not cut the charitable deduction as I won't itemize going forward. The table stakes are very high to play at this level and of course the rewards are high as well and the pressure to produce must be high (I can imagine that DePaul wants to improve for alumni contributions, and Loyola Chicago saw a multi million dollar bump (they are actually bigger than Xavier with 11,000 students). A few bad years can cause a drop off(U of Conn mens coach fired(Ollie) as buzz was off and alumni mad). I played in a summer league game against Staak once, his team had enough players foul out to only have 4 players(a summer league) and he just took over and won the game single handedly as he must have been taking it easy before. A great UConn player from the 60s and we were a few years younger but he busted our bubble. Look forward to the season and hope for the best.

[Xville]

I think most of us recognize the value of continuity. In our case, it wasn't possible as we didn't have the money from either the University, Donors, or a combination thereof to pay what Lousiville was willing to pay Mack. I've posted several times that the move to the Big East was great for the University, but that we fans had to be willing to participate at a higher level financially (within our own means individually). I'm loathed to tell anyone how to spend their hard earned money, but the revenue and donations needed to promote continuity and consistency on a yearly basis in the Big East will only continue to increase. Need evidence? Look at Marquette's new accommodations or the practice facilities at Georgetown. So it's one thing to say "pay the man" or "Pay the woman", it's another to get people to open their wallets.

Mack didn't leave because of money, and the subject of continuity in my opinion is completely overblown. Xavier has done just fine without it, and Xavier is never going to be a destination job. To think or believe otherwise is silly in my humble opinion.

[xudash]

Mack didn't leave because of money, and the subject of continuity in my opinion is completely overblown. Xavier has done just fine without it, and Xavier is never going to be a destination job. To think or believe otherwise is silly in my humble opinion.

I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, but my counter - and reasoning - for placing an emphasis on continuity is all about its impact on recruiting. It is highly disruptive to change a coaching staff, regardless of the pedigree of the program. In fact, the fact that we did it as well as we did while being a member of the A10 makes what we did even more impressive.

There is no one right answer here, but, all else being equal, especially when it's "equal" with a solid head coach already on board, continuity is a very, very good thing. Gonzaga is certainly no end all, be all, and I wouldn't trade Xavier's place in all this with them for anything, but you can't possibly ignore the impact Few has had on that program. Recruits have become conditioned to truly believe he's in it for the long haul there. Regardless of Gonzaga's brand at the time when Few finally steps aside, they're going to face a very critical moment, as they will not have faced a coaching change in years and, unless something changes, they remain extremely vulnerable as a result of their conference affiliation.

I'm not going to state that I believe that Xavier has become a destination job, because of the money disparity as we all know, but I'm also not going to go down the definitive NEVER route. You noted that Mack didn't leave because of money. So, we tend to think or believe that he left because of his wife's desire to go home. A Xavier graduate married a Louisville girl and so it goes. Well, we now have a Butler graduate who married into a prominent Xavier/Cincinnati family. IF Travis proves he's the cat's meow in all this and Xavier eventually takes him up into the $3mm per year stratosphere as a result of high achievement, who is to say that it's not in his makeup to want to stay in Cincinnati and make a commanding legacy for himself on Victory Parkway. You can live in Hyde Park on $3mm per year.

[Xavier]

I think continuity is critical. I felt like Xavier was on the edge of being a power house with Miller- you could feel it. Even more so with Mack (2 seed, elite 8, 1 seed/BE champ) taking that momentum I truly believe X was on the right path to becoming Nova. With each coach leaving comes minor set backs that take awhile to reclaim, if at all. Its always risky. How many programs have won a NC, or had high continued success (High seeds/deep runs/FF hopes) year in year out where the school is not a destination job.

In the end, I suppose it depends on what you think is realistic. If you believe Xavier is a place where if everything lined up with recruits, right coach, etc. etc. and we can catch lightning in a a bottle and win 1 NC or do you think we could become a Villanova or even Gonzaga type program. The latter requires a coach to stay for 10+ years.

[Masterofreality]

I think continuity is critical. I felt like Xavier was on the edge of being a power house with Miller- you could feel it. Even more so with Mack (2 seed, elite 8, 1 seed/BE champ) taking that momentum I truly believe X was on the right path to becoming Nova. With each coach leaving comes minor set backs that take awhile to reclaim, if at all. Its always risky. How many programs have won a NC, or had high continued success (High seeds/deep runs/FF hopes) year in year out where the school is not a destination job.

In the end, I suppose it depends on what you think is realistic. If you believe Xavier is a place where if everything lined up with recruits, right coach, etc. etc. and we can catch lightning in a a bottle and win 1 NC or do you think we could become a Villanova or even Gonzaga type program. The latter requires a coach to stay for 10+ years.

It took Mark Few 17 years to make a Final Four. When you are not the "Payers Programs" like UK, Kansas, NC, Duke or Indiana you will probably have to catch a collapsed bracket or incredible luck like Moser or Stevens to not have long term continuity and make a Final Four.