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  1. #1
    Sophomore OTRMUSKIE's Avatar
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    Past final 4 defensive rankings

    Okay so I went back and looked at kenpoms defensive rankings since 2002. Here is the final 4 teams, their defensive ranking and rather then won or were the runner up.


    2002
    Maryland 7 champs
    Indiana 5 Runner up
    Kansas 6
    Oklahoma 4

    2003
    Kansas 3 runner up
    Syracuse 14 champs
    Marquette 109
    Texas 58

    2004
    Duke 3
    Oklahoma st 11
    Georgia tech 4. Runnerups
    Uconn 6. Champs

    2005
    Unc. 5. Champs
    Illinois 4 runner up
    Louisville 20
    Mich st 28

    2006
    Florida 7 champs
    UCLA 4 runnerups
    LSU 3
    George Mason 13

    2007
    Florida 7 champs
    Ohio st 11 runner ups
    Georgetown 21
    UCLA 2

    2008
    Kansas 1 champs
    Memphis 2 runner up
    Unc 14
    UCLA 5

    2009
    Mich st 9 runner up
    Villanova 10
    Unc 18 champs
    Uconn 3

    2010
    Duke 5 champs
    Butler 7 runner ups
    West Virginia 21
    Michigan st 27

    2011
    Uconn 15 champs
    Butler 46 runner up
    Vcu 78
    Kentucky 16

    2012
    Kentucky 7 champs
    Louisville 1
    Ohio st 4
    Kansas 3 runner up

    2013
    Shockers 20
    Louisville 1 champs
    Syracuse 6
    Michigan 37 runnerups

    2014
    Florida 3
    Uconn 10 champs
    Kentucky 32 runnerups
    Wisconsin 35

    2015
    Kentucky 1
    Duke 11 champs
    Wisconsin 35 runnerups
    Mich st 27

    2016
    Villanova 5 champs
    Unc 21 runnerups
    Oklahoma 17
    Syracuse 18

    2017
    Gonzaga 1 runner-up
    Unc 11 champs
    Oregon 17
    South Carolina 3
    Dayton isn't that bad of a place if you haven't been anywhere else.

  2. #2
    Sophomore OTRMUSKIE's Avatar
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    My calculations have to be off but maybe they arnt. The avg championship game defensive record was 22.5 and the avg final 4 60.25. Is that right? I think other then a few exceptions defensive teams are the ones who make the final
    4.
    Dayton isn't that bad of a place if you haven't been anywhere else.

  3. #3
    When just one isnt enough X-band '01's Avatar
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    Just one outlier in that bunch - 2003 Marquette.

  4. #4
    Sophomore OTRMUSKIE's Avatar
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    VCU was a 78
    Dayton isn't that bad of a place if you haven't been anywhere else.

  5. #5
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    I completely understand the defense needs to get better thought. I think come tournament time we will bring out the 1-3-1 a little more. It is hard to prepare for that when you don't see it and it worked well during last years run (from what I remember).

    By now, most Big East teams have seen it enough to at least understand how to play against it which is why I think we haven't gone to it much. It has been much more effective in the tournament and we will see it more, IMO.

    I also have confidence in Marshal/Scruggs man defense. Together, they can do a pretty solid job on opponents better wing/guard play. Again, stats could say otherwise and I could be wrong but just how I feel when watching. I am more worried about the defense when playing a team that passes well and uses everyone over a dominant player. The Big East has a few teams who just spread the ball well and is tough to defend.

  6. #6
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    I am sure the offensive rating was just as high if not higher.

  7. #7
    Sophomore OTRMUSKIE's Avatar
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    You can have an average offense and still make the final 4. But typically only teams in the top 40 of defense make the final four.
    Dayton isn't that bad of a place if you haven't been anywhere else.

  8. #8
    Junior xavierj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OTRMUSKIE View Post
    You can have an average offense and still make the final 4. But typically only teams in the top 40 of defense make the final four.
    I don’t think the numbers really back that up. The offensive numbers look really high for the most part as well. In 2003 Marquette had a triple digit defense and a #2 offense. At least for the overall winner they typically also have a very strong offense.

  9. #9
    Youre looking at data from after the tournament. If you look at where teams are before the tournament, most F4 teams are not elite defensively. In general though, I dont put a lot of stock into all these Kenpom "check boxes" to make a run in the tournament. It all boils down to finding fancy ways to say better teams have a better chance of advancing in March. Well Xavier is really good, and they have intangibles a lot of teams dont. Senior leadership, tournament experience, and having the best player on the floor in almost every game they play. If their defense was better they would have a better chance of making a F4, but even factoring in defense, I still think Xavier is one of the 8 most likely teams to make the F4. Maybe poor defense loses them a game in the tournament. But I dont think its any more or less likely than the flaws of any other team in America.

  10. #10
    All-Conference XUFan09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierj View Post
    I donít think the numbers really back that up. The offensive numbers look really high for the most part as well. In 2003 Marquette had a triple digit defense and a #2 offense. At least for the overall winner they typically also have a very strong offense.
    Yeah, offense is actually a stronger predictor than defense. Chad Brendel put it well: When an opponent can make contested shots at a reasonable clip, you have to have the scoring to match them.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

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