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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MuskieXU View Post
    I have no issue with schools that do this, but I dont really think its worthwhile the majority of the time. I've yet to see a single player turn around a program or make such a significant difference that it'd be worth it to hire his dad/uncle/coach to get him. I would even go so far as to say that recruiting 5 stars is counterproductive if you dont have a plan as to how you're surrounding him with sufficient talent. Ask Jones, Gottfried, Romar, Rice, Smart, Crean, etc how recruiting these players worked out for them
    I do concur that most of the time the results are less than noteworthy. But Danny Manning/Ed Manning at Kansas would illustrate how it does work.
    I have seen only two great plays: Hamlet and put the ball into the basket

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by joe titan View Post
    I do concur that most of the time the results are less than noteworthy. But Danny Manning/Ed Manning at Kansas would illustrate how it does work.
    That was back when even the best recruit in America stayed for 4 years, and Manning won the title as a Senior. These days you are giving up a spot on your staff for one or two years of a player. However, I will agree that it can work. Isiah Whitehead is an example of it working, although he only took Seton Hall from average to slightly above average. There are also examples of it blowing up in your face like Memphis this year. It's not something I would want Xavier to do or can see them ever doing. But I dont care if other schools want to do it, just don't expect it to change the program.

  3. #13
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    I've become strangely ok with this process recently ��
    "If our season was based on A-10 awards, there’d be a lot of empty space up in the rafters of the Cintas Center." - Chris Mack

  4. #14
    Junior sirthought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuskieXU View Post
    I have no issue with schools that do this, but I dont really think its worthwhile the majority of the time. I've yet to see a single player turn around a program or make such a significant difference that it'd be worth it to hire his dad/uncle/coach to get him. I would even go so far as to say that recruiting 5 stars is counterproductive if you dont have a plan as to how you're surrounding him with sufficient talent. Ask Jones, Gottfried, Romar, Rice, Smart, Crean, etc how recruiting these players worked out for them
    Without thinking about it too much:
    - Kansas State when Huggins hired Frank Martin for Michael Beasley and Bill Walker. They immediately turned that program's status around within two or three years.
    - Dajaun Wagner and Milt Wagner hired at Memphis State. He only stayed one year, but that really helped Coach Cal recruit bigger players.

  5. #15
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    I am fine with schools doing this.

    I am even more fine with people raking them over the coals when it doesn't work.

    And in most cases it doesn't.

    LSU hired a guy related to Simmons. Dumpster fire.

    Memphis hired the Lawson brother's dad. Dumpster fire.

    Washington hired Michael Porter Jr.'s dad. That turned into a dumpster fire before he ever even got there.

    Seton Hall hired Isaiah Washington's HS coach Tiny Morton. The team is still fine (although if I'm hiring a dude to get one kid the kid would have to be a hell of a lot better than Whithead), but that situation turned ugly and ended with him resigning.

    Baylor hired John Wall's AAU coach. Wall didn't even go there.

    Ben Howland hired an AAU coach to get Jordan Adams and Shaq Goodwin. They got Adams, but Goodwin went to Memphis. They missed the tourney in 2012 and in 2013 got knocked out in the first round. Howland was fired shortly thereafter.

    The only instance I can recall where a relative/coach was hired to land a player where it worked out was Dajuan Wagner at Memphis.

    There may be others, but I can't really recall any.

  6. #16
    Supporting Member paulxu's Avatar
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    Xavier hired Luke Murray so we could have Bill on the sideline.

    Does that count?
    ...he went up late, and I was already up there.

  7. #17
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirthought View Post
    Without thinking about it too much:
    - Kansas State when Huggins hired Frank Martin for Michael Beasley and Bill Walker. They immediately turned that program's status around within two or three years.
    - Dajaun Wagner and Milt Wagner hired at Memphis State. He only stayed one year, but that really helped Coach Cal recruit bigger players.
    Beasley's one K-State team kinda sucked. I think Xavier beat them by about 100 points (I was pretty drunk, but that sounds right). Wagner was a nice player at Memphis, but he didn't turn the program around. And him being at Memphis didn't have anything to do with Cal's ability to recruit the players on his better teams. Calipari can just recruit, period.

    I don't really see either of those two as success stories. (Also, it was Dalonte Hill that Huggy Bear hired to get Beasley.)

  8. #18
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    Speaking of Dalonte Hill, what a trainwreck he made of his life. Three drunken driving arrests took him from highest paid assistant coach in college basketball to spending 60 days in jail, out of college basketball and slumming it on the AAU circuit. Hopefully he's stopped hanging out with Tardy Turtle.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoMuskies View Post
    Wagner was a nice player at Memphis, but he didn't turn the program around. And him being at Memphis didn't have anything to do with Cal's ability to recruit the players on his better teams. Calipari can just recruit, period.
    Yeah Wagner just happened to be one of the first big players he got. Calipari was going to do his thing regardless.

  10. #20
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    Detroit hiring Ray McCallum Sr. worked out well for a few years (mostly while McCallum Jr. was there). Not sure if that counts though, since McCallum was already an actual coach beforehand.

    The results were good, but a couple of his teams massively underachieved.

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