It was in post 1396 where I explained how we as a people and a collection of states decide what we are willing to volunteer/allow the Feds to do.
"No, I don't think people should be forced to work for others. There are certain things we as a people and states allowed/volunteered the Fed govt to spend money on. Other people's healthcare, housing and food were not any of them. Yes, any Fed program that does so should be struck down and the power to do so returned to the states until the Constitution is amended."
Again we volunteer our rights and sovereignty to the Feds through the Amendment process. Thought I'd repost it in case you missed it. Also, of course I believe one should not be forced to labor for the benefit of another. Do you not?
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Thread: Politics Thread
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05-12-2017, 03:18 PM #1431
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05-12-2017, 04:13 PM #1432
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Strange, so are you saying that 750M Europeans are wrong about single payer healthcare? Are you also putting sovereignty of the states over the well-being of it's citizens?
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05-12-2017, 04:40 PM #1433
750M people do not have the same system. The EU if you will is made up of smaller nation states that have the right to self determine what they want from their individual national govts (kind of like the states in the US). I put the sovereignty of the individual and their individual rights over the well being of the collective. This is America right?
To quote Ferris, "I'm not European. I don't plan on being European. So gives a c&$@ if they're socialists."
Edit: One example but the Germans have a multi-payer system.Last edited by Strange Brew; 05-12-2017 at 05:05 PM.
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05-12-2017, 06:19 PM #1434
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European systems are all really close in how they operate. The difference being GB which is on a pure state run NHCS.
Yes and no in Germany, you can have the state system which is technically a massive non-profit or you can have your own care which you pay for on your own. The difference between the two is minimal (hint I know people on both). The difference between them and us is massive, all are on a system of care whether the non-profit or the private. Go ahead and challenge me on the German system, I will forward what you ask to my friends who all live in Bavaria. I have even lived on their system.
To reduce the difference between them and us on a Ferris Bueller quote is immature and does the argument disservice. To sit and state that individual rights are of paramount importance over the well being of the collective you must be against a lot of things then in the government. Federal law enforcement, military, federal taxation, national parks, employment protections, federal racial protections, federal religious protections, hey you can't cherry pick stuff here, how about national highways, coast guard, the list goes on and on and on.
Shouldn't California have to pay to patrol their own beaches, why should Arizona pay for that? Vice versa for the Arizona border with Mexico, why is any state paying for that other than Arizona? We could really break this down, lets reduce it to counties at specific borders. They should be the ones paying not me.
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05-12-2017, 09:35 PM #1435
So most Euros don't have a single payer system. Glad we cleared that up.
Call your friends from or who have lived in a foreign country and I'll call mine. We can play a fun game of "I know a guy"...
The movie quote was a joke.
You mentioned quite a few Fed programs. Some of which I support as they're in the Constitution. You've actually read the doc, right?Last edited by Strange Brew; 05-12-2017 at 09:46 PM.
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05-13-2017, 01:06 PM #1436
Did you know the President gets TWO scoops of ice cream with his pie!!!! $%#! $! Pie-gate
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05-17-2017, 07:52 AM #1437
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05-17-2017, 08:23 AM #1438
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05-17-2017, 08:29 AM #1439
Informative and thought provoking post. The problem with the 'let the states handle it' argument (in my opinion) is that it devolves into an argument around the matter of degree for a variety of things in which the federal government supports the states.
Once again, you are responding to a well thought-out and fact-based post with a couple of lines that only minimally address the issues raised. You have offered almost nothing the way of a rebuttal, other than a few quips with no supporting arguments. I'm actually confused as to why you continue to participate in this conversation. You seem to lack either the willingness or ability to thoroughly respond to people's arguments. I don't see what you are getting out of this.
To address to your specific points:
(1) While many Europeans don't have a single payer system in the strictest sense of the word, their systems function like a single payer system. I think most Americans who support single payer would be fine entertaining a system like Germany has. In fact, I would wager that many people who would not necessarily support a true Canadian-style single-payer system might support something more analogous to the German system.
(2) The problem I have with the 'but the Constitution says / doesn't say' argument is the fact that the Constitution generally doesn't call out degrees, even for the things it does specifically mention. It mentions common defence (sp), but doesn't talk to the degree of defense. It also mentions 'General Welfare' several times without specificity, qualification, or degree. People who support widely available healthcare could pretty easily argue it falls under 'General Welfare.
Personally I am not a Constitutional literalist by any means, so I don't really care all that much about what it says on certain issues. I believe that the primary purpose is to lay out groundwork for how to legislate.Eat Donuts!
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05-17-2017, 08:37 AM #1440
Who would've thought the uncontrollable egomaniac with shady ties to Russia turned out to be an uncontrollable egomaniac with shady ties to Russia?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3171268Run the table.
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