Page 210 of 210 FirstFirst ... 110160200208209210
Results 2,091 to 2,094 of 2094

Thread: Politics Thread

  1. #2091
    Supporting Member bjf123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Section 105
    Posts
    2,516
    Youíre making my point. If youíre correct, and no one is going to propose raising taxes, can we assume the Democrats will stop with their continual harping on how the rich arenít paying their fair share? The only way to change that is to raise their taxes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.

  2. #2092
    Sophomore Caf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    753
    Quote Originally Posted by GenerationX View Post
    I donít disagree with that opinion, but I donít understand why you disagree with people being more outraged at whatís going on now. Obamaís administration detained minors who helped people enter the country illegally. Trumpís is simply separating the children from parents and eventually putting them in foster care, etc. The parents donít know where their children are and vice versa. I mean these are apples and oranges situations.

    Iíll speak for myself in saying the only reason I replied to you is that you seemed perplexed why there is such an uproar now but not then. I mean really, what Obamaís administration did was arguable. I suspect the point was to deter the children from doing it again (helping people enter illegally.) Or in the case of family separation, to ensure the safety of the children. Again, I agree holding anyone, especially children, that they had no intention to charge is a human rights violation. But thatís not at all whatís going on now. I personally think itís all a political game to try to get his horrible ďreformsĒ passed.

    Not only that, trump has put a spotlight on himself, so more people are aware of these things... the outrage is much more widespread. Thatís probably the main positive thing Iíve witnessed since he was elected... people have become more engaged.
    I understand why the outrage is greater now. What I don't understand is how people don't see how today is connected to Obama and every member of government before.

    It's hypocritical to not have been upset about Obama's practices because they were an indication of gray areas where our laws were lacking and how they could be exploited to infringe on civil liberties. What allowed the Obama administration to get away with detaining guides is exactly what the Trump administration used to get away with child separation.

    I keep going back to "detaining minors without charging them" because that is the basic law and right we extend to citizens and not migrants which has allowed this to happen. There is no law that the government has to keep kids with parents who are being arrested, citizen or not. There never will be. There is a law that says anyone arrested has a right to due process. It was in the Magna Carta for Christ's sake. It's an enormous flaw and contradiction to our basic values which Obama, Trump, and others before have not addressed and instead exploited. If you think the outrage here is that Trump did this, and not that Trump was able to legally do this, you're not seeing the forest from the trees. In 2018, in the United States, it's perfectly legal for the government to arrest a migrant parent and detain their children in a shelter. It's also perfectly legal to hold migrant teenagers accused of wrongdoing without proving wrongdoing in a court for extended periods of time. It's the same basic liberty being violated whether it's a happy family fleeing oppression or a teen trying to break the law.

    I think people forget what Congress' function is since it's been a cesspool for 20 years forcing Presidents and the Courts to have to overstep their authority to keep this country functioning. Now we have a Frankenstein solution where kids will be detained with their parents. Oh happy day... From one band aid executive action to the next this country limps on.

  3. #2093
    Supporting Member GenerationX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Caf View Post
    I understand why the outrage is greater now. What I don't understand is how people don't see how today is connected to Obama and every member of government before.

    It's hypocritical to not have been upset about Obama's practices because they were an indication of gray areas where our laws were lacking and how they could be exploited to infringe on civil liberties. What allowed the Obama administration to get away with detaining guides is exactly what the Trump administration used to get away with child separation.

    I keep going back to "detaining minors without charging them" because that is the basic law and right we extend to citizens and not migrants which has allowed this to happen. There is no law that the government has to keep kids with parents who are being arrested, citizen or not. There never will be. There is a law that says anyone arrested has a right to due process. It was in the Magna Carta for Christ's sake. It's an enormous flaw and contradiction to our basic values which Obama, Trump, and others before have not addressed and instead exploited. If you think the outrage here is that Trump did this, and not that Trump was able to legally do this, you're not seeing the forest from the trees. In 2018, in the United States, it's perfectly legal for the government to arrest a migrant parent and detain their children in a shelter. It's also perfectly legal to hold migrant teenagers accused of wrongdoing without proving wrongdoing in a court for extended periods of time. It's the same basic liberty being violated whether it's a happy family fleeing oppression or a teen trying to break the law.

    I think people forget what Congress' function is since it's been a cesspool for 20 years forcing Presidents and the Courts to have to overstep their authority to keep this country functioning. Now we have a Frankenstein solution where kids will be detained with their parents. Oh happy day... From one band aid executive action to the next this country limps on.
    Thank you for clarifying. I agree with everything youíve stated. The action itself is appalling, but the fact that it could be done perfectly legally should be the focus. Iím skeptical anything will change, at least not any time soon, for the reason youíve stated... Congress is a cesspool and completely ineffective.
    "Some of our guys thought defense was a town in Chile. Other guys thought defense was something you put up around d-house to keep out d-dog and d-cat." Pete Gillen

  4. #2094
    Supporting Member waggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gold Country
    Posts
    10,739
    I think we should pull Ol' Sparky of retirement. Fry a few up and all this nonsense would stop.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •