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  1. #21
    Supporting Member boozehound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton View Post
    How about I try this:

    Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?

    I have no problem saying this could have been me. Not because I am an inattentive or bad parent, but because toddlers are going to be toddlers, and I am not perfect. For that reason alone I will not judge. "Let anyone of you who is without sin throw the first stone at her".

    So, anyone?
    Cosign times 1000. People are real shit heads online. It makes it very easy to judge when you get to do so behind the veil of social media.

    I have a 2.5 yr old toddler and 1 month old twins. Sometimes I have gone to the zoo, or other places, with multiple toddlers / young children (my child + nieces / nephews). There are a million opportunities for a small child to slip away from even the most attentive parent. Short of putting your kids on leashes all the time, things can happen. This was a one in a million type of situation. It's very unfortunate, but people need to chill out on the vilifying of the parents, unless it turns out that they were TRULY poor / inattentive parents.
    Eat Donuts!

  2. #22
    People are funny sometimes. We sit and argue all day and point out flaws of the President of US. " He should not have said this / I would have done that."

    But when it comes to being critical of someone who let a 4 year climb into a Gorilla cage. "You don't know what it's like to be a parent, you're opinion is invalid!"

    Not saying I fully blame the parent (s) / don't know any details - just a funny observation about society.
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  3. #23
    Junior LadyMuskie's Avatar
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    I'm so sick of this idea that all parents are created equal. Bullshit. Like every other job on the planet, there are good parents, bad parents and mediocre parents.

    In the last 7 years I've been to the Zoo countless times. I've brought multiple children of various ages and I've been with people who brought children of multiple ages. Guess what? No one was nearly killed by a wild animal because we parented. We made rules for those old enough to understand them (and 4 is plenty old enough as any daycare/preschool administration would know) and for those that couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules, they had to be held, in a stroller or holding an adult hand.

    Parenting is hard, but good parenting is not impossible. It does take constant vigilance and awareness, time to teach rules, and it sometimes means leaving before you're ready when junior announces his plan to enter a wild animal's cage. By the age of 4, if you care enough and pay enough attention, you know whether or not you have a kid who will just accept a "no" or who needs to be removed. I guarantee this is not the first time junior has taken off.

    So, while nothing is impossible, I'll go ahead and claim that a child in my care entering a wild animal enclosure is completely improbable. After going to the Zoo as much as I have with as many little kids as I have, I feel perfectly fine in saying that.

    The question is, will you now judge me because you don't think this mother should be judged? I'm not the perfect mother, but my child and the children who've been in my care have never been in that kind danger.
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  4. #24
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    I thought we all already agreed that OVERLY attentive parents have ruined a generation. I say bravo to this mother for letting her little guy do some exploring. How many other 4 year olds have had the experience of hanging with a silverback and seeing a live hunt up close and personal? None of these helicopter parents' kids, that's for damned sure!

    Who knows how long it took for this kid to slip away and get in the enclosure. I have a 5 year-old, and you can be damn sure I don't watch every single move he makes. He's 5. Granted, I watch him like a hawk in a parking lot and if we're crossing a street, so I'd like to think that if there was an attractive nuisance that could spell trouble I'd be damn sure to be right with him. But I can't say for sure without knowing what the place looks like and how obvious it was that a kid could potentially climb in.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton View Post
    Is there anyone on this board who is or has been the parent of a toddler, and believes that this could never, under any circumstances, ever have happened to you? Is there anyone out there vain enough to say that?
    No.

    My wife and I were talking about this over the weekend (1 and 2 year old at home). It could easily happen. I don't remember how the barrier works there, so I was wondering if it's possible that the parent saw the kid after 5 or 6 seconds, but just couldn't get to them. If the kid darted off the other way, it'd never be a story and people wouldn't hate the parents. But their inattentiveness would have been the same. He just happened to dart into the gorilla habitat. It's a bad situation for everyone.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member boozehound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyMuskie View Post
    I'm so sick of this idea that all parents are created equal. Bullshit. Like every other job on the planet, there are good parents, bad parents and mediocre parents.

    In the last 7 years I've been to the Zoo countless times. I've brought multiple children of various ages and I've been with people who brought children of multiple ages. Guess what? No one was nearly killed by a wild animal because we parented. We made rules for those old enough to understand them (and 4 is plenty old enough as any daycare/preschool administration would know) and for those that couldn't or wouldn't follow the rules, they had to be held, in a stroller or holding an adult hand.

    Parenting is hard, but good parenting is not impossible. It does take constant vigilance and awareness, time to teach rules, and it sometimes means leaving before you're ready when junior announces his plan to enter a wild animal's cage. By the age of 4, if you care enough and pay enough attention, you know whether or not you have a kid who will just accept a "no" or who needs to be removed. I guarantee this is not the first time junior has taken off.

    So, while nothing is impossible, I'll go ahead and claim that a child in my care entering a wild animal enclosure is completely improbable. After going to the Zoo as much as I have with as many little kids as I have, I feel perfectly fine in saying that.

    The question is, will you now judge me because you don't think this mother should be judged? I'm not the perfect mother, but my child and the children who've been in my care have never been in that kind danger.
    This is a ridiculous argument to make. It is completely improbable that children in anyone's care are going to end up in a gorilla enclosure at the zoo. Tens of thousands of terrible and inattentive parents bring their kids to the Zoo without ending up in a wild animal enclosure. There is virtually no correlation / causation that can be drawn from this anecdotal data point due to the sample size of actual incidents occurring at the Cincinnati Zoo, or any Zoo, being so small. Almost anyone can make this statement, regardless of parenting ability.

    My point is that we have VERY LITTLE information about what transpired, and that it is premature to judge the parents too harshly with the information we have at this point (which is almost none, as far as I can gather). I'm glad that you are such a super-parent that there is literally no chance that a child could misbehave in your care. You should feel really proud of that. Most of us aren't that good.

    So yeah, I guess I am going to judge you (and others) for judging the parents, AT THIS POINT. If we get some actual information that the parents were being inattentive / negligent then I may have a different opinion. Right now everybody's opinion is based on (1) a healthy dose of conjecture, coupled with (2) an emotional response to the death of the gorilla.

    It is a terrible situation that almost never happens. I don't get the rush to blame.
    Last edited by boozehound; 05-31-2016 at 08:46 AM.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by boozehound View Post
    (2) an emotional response to the death of the gorilla.
    I think this is it. A kid running through up the hill away from the gorilla pit and a kid running into the gorilla pit requires the same non-action from a parent. The fact that the gorilla had to be shot doesn't make the parents worse than if he ran the other way.

  8. #28
    Sophomore NY44's Avatar
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    Eh, I'll bite. I don't know the details/the whole story either, but there is clear blame to be faced here. Over 1 million people visit this zoo every year, a large portion being children, and this has never happened before.

    The exception to the rule in this situation is obviously the child and parents. I don't think it's right or necessary to condemn or punish the parents, but give me a break. Mistakes were made, and I'm sure they're well aware of that having come close to losing their boy.

  9. #29
    I still believe. muskiefan82's Avatar
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    The only safe thing I think I can say is that I am glad the person with the rifle has really good aim.
    We've come a long way since my bench seat at the Fieldhouse!

  10. #30
    Sophomore More Cowbell's Avatar
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    I really don't understand why everyone feels the need to jump to judgement about something they know virtually nothing about. Unless you were there or saw a video of the kid getting away, how could you know the mom was being a poor parent?

    I was at the mall a couple years ago. I saw my daughter (3 years old) was walking to my wife and turned my head away. Instead of keeping going to my wife, she turned and went down the escalator. If she had gotten hurt on the escalator, a la Mallrats, should we have had our kids taken from us?

    This just makes me think of a public execution where everyone is shaming the punished. People on social media are so quick to attack. I saw they even posted the Mom's name, workplace and contact information.
    Last edited by More Cowbell; 05-31-2016 at 09:14 AM.
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