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  1. #21
    Supporting Member D-West & PO-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OH.X.MI View Post
    But at the same time you've got to fight to get into Holy Grail, Tin Roof, and Jefferson Social on a weekend night. Maybe it's just that Toby Keith's and Johnny Rockets, and especially Mahogany's were shity establishments? Not every bar or restaurant is a success. Location plays a huge role, but establishments still have to provide good services.

    I think that's the same problem with Mt. Adams. Bars up there haven't adapted to the "in scene." I don't think most young people want to listen to EDM and drink vodka red bull anymore. Of course, that means if the "scene" down at OTR fades away those bars/restaurants might too. Everything is cyclical in that industry.
    I lived at the Banks for 2 years and I can tell you Johnny Rockets was a disaster for no other reason than it had some of the worst service I've ever experienced coupled with terribly expensive food.

    In the beginning they had breakfast on weekends which was awesome and I went to then they cancelled it and I went 2 other times and refused to ever go back. Food was ok, prices ridiculous, slow and horrible service. It had a full bar too so if it was run well it could have done a lot better. If the owner of that place blames anyone besides himself for the failure he's delusional. Everyone knew it was only a matter of time untol that place closed.

    In two years I went to Toby Keith once and it was completely mediocre. Not surprised it didnt last. Tin Roof I loved most of the time. I ate there tons of times, food was good, service was good, and it was fun most weekends unless the band was a dud or not my type.
    "I知 willing to sacrifice everything for this team. I知 going to dive for every loose ball, close out harder on every shot, block out for every rebound. I知 going to play harder than I致e ever played. And I need you all to follow me." -MB '17

  2. #22
    Supporting Member D-West & PO-Z's Avatar
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    At this point in time the Banks is more of a destination for games and events that fills up the places, and bars at night. OTR really is a dinner destination (and bars obviously too) but there is some great food in OTR that brings people there solely for that.
    "I知 willing to sacrifice everything for this team. I知 going to dive for every loose ball, close out harder on every shot, block out for every rebound. I知 going to play harder than I致e ever played. And I need you all to follow me." -MB '17

  3. #23
    All-Conference Juice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z View Post
    I lived at the Banks for 2 years and I can tell you Johnny Rockets was a disaster for no other reason than it had some of the worst service I've ever experienced coupled with terribly expensive food.

    In the beginning they had breakfast on weekends which was awesome and I went to then they cancelled it and I went 2 other times and refused to ever go back. Food was ok, prices ridiculous, slow and horrible service. It had a full bar too so if it was run well it could have done a lot better. If the owner of that place blames anyone besides himself for the failure he's delusional. Everyone knew it was only a matter of time untol that place closed.

    In two years I went to Toby Keith once and it was completely mediocre. Not surprised it didnt last. Tin Roof I loved most of the time. I ate there tons of times, food was good, service was good, and it was fun most weekends unless the band was a dud or not my type.
    Toby Keith's was just way too damn big to survive.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirthought View Post
    Response to some of the comments here:

    - Crime happens and we deal with it no matter where it is. I never said it ended completely or anything about displacement not being evident. Quarterly police reports show crime has been greatly reduced in downtown and OTR. The rise in population and development has to be seen as a major factor in this. (And I feel the promise of the streetcar contributed to that.) But crime has trended down there for the past decade, so it could be lots of factors.

    News stories on shootings are covered today with such sensationalism, any incident is considerably amplified. Overall crime is down here. Let's be glad such a key historic neighborhood in all of America is getting a better trend in that regard.

    - _LH You are flat out wrong about the streetcar not spurring on development. Talk to Bobby Maly at Model Group about all of their investment in and around Findlay Market ($19million project in just one block). Talk to Paul Kitzmiller at CORE Resources (tens of projects there in the past 5 years—so busy they moved their HQ from suburbs to OTR). Or HGC Construction (building projects all over there like Taft Ale House). Good lord, they have been working nonstop and most of these projects wouldn't have had so much consideration had it not been for the streetcar coming. We'll see if the final impact really pans out.

    And major business leaders setting up business accelerators like the Brandery and Cintrifuse could have picked lots of Cincinnati neighborhoods to set up their HQ. They chose a neighborhood that does have a dangerous reputation largely because it was in line to start having the sort of amenities that young tech entrepreneurs are looking for today — walkable neighborhoods, diverse population, access to public transportation.

    I agree restaurants will come and go. It's one of the dumbest businesses to get into because it's so hard to last. But those are businesses that get quick ink now. It was one easy example from that day I posted. But if you speak with Bob Deck at 4 Entertainment Group about where they chose to build bars down there…each new spot is near the streetcar line. Many of the recent (and coming) restaurants are from owners who already have a business elsewhere in Cincinnati. If they wanted to invest in a new place, there are plenty of neighborhoods with real estate available, but OTR is where it's exploding and the streetcar is the key differential.

    Plenty of other people setting up shop for design firms, construction, architecture, law, accountants and numerous other endeavors. It's going to be a hugely populated neighborhood compared to what it has been in recent decades.

    - Xvile, I'm not worried about Mt. Adams. Why are you? No empty homes up there and still a great location near downtown! The bars and shops have plenty of customers just from who lives there, but that neighborhood was always meant to be more residential than a business hub.

    - The streetcar should help business at the Banks, but the whole vibe there is completely different than OTR. It's very generic. They've had some bad luck with who they've picked to go in initially, but it doesn't help that it's so expensive just to set up shop. Kind of hard to build organically.

    I am curious if the new hotel will improve convention business and provide a larger customer base seeking entertainment. I see the locals continuing to mostly go there for games and the park, not necessarily eat regularly. This summer I went down Smale Park every week during business daytime hours and it was surprisingly busy, but I don't know if people are dining at the Banks. I never do.



    Still excited about this milestone today for the streetcar and looking forward to seeing the first train arive in a month or two.
    No Sir, I am not wrong at all. The delvelopments in OTR, etc. are due mostly to 3CDC's involvement and vision. It was going to happen whether the streetcar was built or not. Your revisionist history is tiresome.

  5. #25
    Junior blobfan's Avatar
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    Streetcar milestone set for Friday

    Of course some of the businesses already invested in OTR are saying how much they love the idea of the streetcar. Anything to increase traffic without them haven't to invest further. But the only ones I believe when they say it was a primary reason are the ones that paid off their favorite council member or mayor to pick the route where they could buy the most property. I'll believe the others are sincere if they agree that businesses on the route should pay extra taxes to help fund subsequent phases. In other words, I won't ever believe it.

  6. #26
    All-Conference Juice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blobfan View Post
    Of course some of the businesses already invested in OTR are saying how much they love the idea of the streetcar. Anything to increase traffic without them haven't to invest further. But the only ones I believe when they say it was a primary reason are the ones that paid off their favorite council member or mayor to pick the route where they could buy the most property. I'll believe the others are sincere if they agree that businesses on the route should pay extra taxes to help fund subsequent phases. In other words, I won't ever believe it.
    Agreed. Tons of bars and restaurants were going in on Vine and Main St. way before the streetcar was a twinkle in the hipsters' eyes.

  7. #27
    Junior Porkopolis's Avatar
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    I've lived at The Banks for several years now. Mahogany's, Johnny Rockets and Toby Keith's were horribly run businesses with horrible products. No surprise they failed. As others have mentioned, the remaining establishments are doing great. Even on non event nights Yard House, Tin Roof, Holy Grail/Santo Graal, Ruth's Chris and Jefferson Social do decent business. What is really needed is some retail to balance things out. I would love a UDF or something similar.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member xudash's Avatar
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    The major, most attractive cities in Europe have functional mass transit systems. Our major cities here, or at least some of them, have functional mass transit.

    Perhaps the Cincinnati system is controversial in how it got done - I haven't followed it that closely - but it's long-term benefit should be strong. Tying OTR to Fountain Square to The Banks would seem to be a very good idea.
    X A V I E R

  9. #29
    All-Conference Kahns Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _LH View Post
    No Sir, I am not wrong at all. The delvelopments in OTR, etc. are due mostly to 3CDC's involvement and vision. It was going to happen whether the streetcar was built or not. Your revisionist history is tiresome.
    I'm so amused that you continue to believe that 3cdc's investment and "vision" just happened to line up with the streetcar line by pure coincidence.

    The investment in downtown from the banks through OTR is consistent with plans that have been executed by multiple entities over the last 20 years. The parks, the streetcar, the parking garage, the stadiums, the fountain square project, the casino. All of it works together to produce the current investment in the urban core. You can't exclude one part of it and say everything else would have happened without it.
    "Give a toast to my brother, hug your family, and do everything possible to live the life you dream of. God Bless."
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  10. #30
    All-Conference Kahns Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _LH View Post
    Other than maybe one waffle stand, the streetcar did not spur any of the development in OTR that has taken place over the past 5 years or the next 5 years.

    Also, just so you know. I am willing to bet that a third to half of the existing new restaurants are gone within 5 years. People love new places but it wears off.
    So you're saying that OTR will beat the national average by a significant amount?

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