Elmwood Place Speed Cameras

**waggy** · 07-20-2013, 03:06 PM

Saw this story in national websites weeks ago and was going to start a thread here and never did. Was wondering if anyone here got caught by these? Maybe this will eventually get moved to smack I dunno. Or maybe the pet peeves thread.

I guess Butler county has something happening on this issue too, which reminded me of it. The judges confiscation of the cameras may or may not be the latest on this.

http://www.ktre.com/story/22702787/j...-speed-cameras

I personally don't have a problem with the idea (or ideal) of red light and/or speed cameras. I just don't trust the administrators to not rip off the public by not fudging the sensors. Cause once people learn not to run lights or speed, then how does the tech get paid for?

XUFan09 · 07-20-2013, 04:22 PM

I've actually read studies that showed an increase in fatalities after cameras were introduced. The T-bone crashes went down but rear end crashes went up a significant degree, leading to a lot of fatalities (relative to before, at least).

Sorry, I can't find the article on my phone. Maybe I'll be able to find it when I get home.

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**bjf123** · 07-20-2013, 05:19 PM

I have a problem with red light or speed cameras because there's no way to argue your case against them. At least if you're clocked by a police officer, you can question him or her, ask about the calibration of the device, when it was last done, and subpoena those records. With the unattended cameras, you have none of those options and are guilty with little to no chance of proving otherwise.

The city of Hamilton has a couple of mobile units. The village of New Miami has multiple red light cameras. I know some municipalities have put in the red light cameras and then shortened the length of the yellow light, purely to generate more revenue. It's not about safety. It's all about revenue enhancement. Outlaw them!

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PMI · 07-21-2013, 11:38 AM

We've had cameras around here for over ten years, and now, it's getting out of control. They are everywhere, and it's nothing more than a shakedown. I got a $120 one for not making a complete stop at a red light before making a right turn into a shopping center. It's become a total joke, and it does NOT make the roads any safer or better run. If you think it sounds like a good "ideal," just wait until you have to deal with them on the scale that we have to.

coasterville95 · 07-21-2013, 02:28 PM

The issue seems to be when the cameras become the modern equivalent to the classic speed trap. You know, like Terrace Park in 50 that has numerous speed changes designed to trick you.

I remember seeing some of the early red light cameras in Charlotte an noting that the bright strobes that get triggered so the camera can take the photo at night would cause even more accidents.

**bobbiemcgee** · 07-21-2013, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by PMI

We've had cameras around here for over ten years, and now, it's getting out of control. They are everywhere, and it's nothing more than a shakedown. I got a $120 one for not making a complete stop at a red light before making a right turn into a shopping center. It's become a total joke, and it does NOT make the roads any safer or better run. If you think it sounds like a good "ideal," just wait until you have to deal with them on the scale that we have to.

In Florida, it you take it to court, it costs $100 bucks more bcuz you had the audacity to use the court system, and if you lose, points on your license (increase in Insurance costs). Total Blackmail if you ask me. Unconstitutional? I hope so at some point.

**WCWIII** · 07-22-2013, 08:39 AM

I received one as the owner of the vehicle (driven by my teenager who rolled through right on red). Reading the fine print, it was rather confusing. I was required to pay the ticket, but technically, it wasn't a violation in the legal system sense. That's what peeved me the most is that it was some way to avoid the legal system (approved by State Law) while charging the vehicle owner for an infraction in a manner that things like "I wasn't even driving the vehicle" could be an excuse. At least I got my lawn mowed for a month by said teenager.

blobfan · 07-22-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by waggy

...
I personally don't have a problem with the idea (or ideal) of red light and/or speed cameras. I just don't trust the administrators to not rip off the public by not fudging the sensors. Cause once people learn not to run lights or speed, then how does the tech get paid for?

That and a lot of them seem to be administered by outside companies making a percentage so there's no incentive to excuse a ticket.

Originally Posted by bjf123

...
The city of Hamilton has a couple of mobile units. The village of New Miami has multiple red light cameras. I know some municipalities have put in the red light cameras and then shortened the length of the yellow light, purely to generate more revenue. It's not about safety. It's all about revenue enhancement. Outlaw them!
...

Another reason not to allow them.

In theory, I think they are a great way to deal with troubled intersections where people chronically ignore the lights even though they are well calibrated. I see this a lot near the interstate during rush hour. The problem happens when you add the human element, which responds badly to the $$ element. If a state puts in strict guidelines for redlight and speeding cameras that include requiring municipalities to place them only in areas with well-marked traffic signs and funnel all result funds into transportation improvements, it might work. As it stands, it's a mess.

ArizonaXUGrad · 07-22-2013, 01:20 PM

The media went out with a stopwatch to lights with red light cameras and lights without red light cameras here in Phoenix. Those with cameras had a shorter duration of yellow lights than those without and it wasn't even close. They were all within a tenth or so of a full second different.

I have a couple issues with them not already mentioned. Cities here said they would not issue tickets to violators where the gender of the driver the registered owner did not match. I loaned out my car to my friend and his wife and she got a ticket but it was issued to me in clear violation of that policy. Second, the program here at least was always a loser for the state. They did not even break even on ticket revenue vs. contractual payments to the private administering company.

To the poster that got one for rolling through a right on red, I am not sure how they would even get you on that. I take a right on an intersection everyday with a camera and me and several others never quite come to a complete stop. The sensor does not even extend to the right hand turn lane.

PMI · 07-22-2013, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by ArizonaXUGrad

The media went out with a stopwatch to lights with red light cameras and lights without red light cameras here in Phoenix. Those with cameras had a shorter duration of yellow lights than those without and it wasn't even close. They were all within a tenth or so of a full second different.

I have a couple issues with them not already mentioned. Cities here said they would not issue tickets to violators where the gender of the driver the registered owner did not match. I loaned out my car to my friend and his wife and she got a ticket but it was issued to me in clear violation of that policy. Second, the program here at least was always a loser for the state. They did not even break even on ticket revenue vs. contractual payments to the private administering company.

To the poster that got one for rolling through a right on red, I am not sure how they would even get you on that. I take a right on an intersection everyday with a camera and me and several others never quite come to a complete stop. The sensor does not even extend to the right hand turn lane.

I've never heard of the gender rule. That seems very strange to me. How can they tell? The ones we get are usually just a shot of the license plate and rarely can you see any detail inside the vehicle. What if the windows were tinted? Or, moreover, what if the driver could clearly be seen, but had a little "It's Pat" thing going on and you couldn't tell whether the person was male or female? I'm no lawyer, but it seems like that would be tough to pass.

And I'm the lucky poster who got the rolling through right on red (into a shopping center no less.) This particular camera is designed only to look for that, not speeding. There's a separate one in front of it for people who speed through and also one up top for rolling the red light straight through. Mine takes a picture before you get to the line, another at the line, and a final one as you're crossing the line. I suppose it measure the timing of all three and can determine whether you had time to stop or not. It really, really sucked. I'm not even a dick who rolls through red lights fast when I'm turning right, but who actually makes a full stop at such a small intersection? I mean you can't even turn left at this "intersection." That one is beyond BS.