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  1. #21
    All-Conference Kahns Krazy's Avatar
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    26-19 would be good for 4th place in the NL central. It's cute though, bragging about 1st place in May.
    "Give a toast to my brother, hug your family, and do everything possible to live the life you dream of. God Bless."
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  2. #22
    Supporting Member DC Muskie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emp View Post
    In Cleveland that may be true......but not in many many other MLB cities.

    The Tigers regularly drew 2M as mediocre teams in freakin creakin Tiger Stadium. Plenty of Midwest examples: Chicago Cubs......St. Louis, Cincinnati.....where fans are loyal and love the game. Boston and Philly also come to mind.

    The Orioles also contradict this analysis......despite upgrades to Camden Yard and a competitive team.

    The logic breaks down even in Cleveland. If fans only want to see winners, why wouldnt 15-9 at home plus hated Tigers plus Cy Young/MVP winner draw the fans out? If you can't at least love your team when they are winning, even if they are going to swoon in August, it's pretty pathetic, and not just my opinion...... http://ballparkdigest.com/2012051348...tendance-stats
    No actually...you are wrong Emp.

    The Cubs and the Cardinals are the exception. Boston and Philly only drew fans when they were winning, just like Cleveland. The Tigers drew just like the Tribe back in the day. You have to look at this as the whole picture. Here in DC attendance is only slightly up, simply because the team is better.

    And you missed my point regarding this year. In the past few seasons, the Indians have been in first. Cleveland fans are interested in knowing they will be a winner, which is why they are not coming. That's just a fact. There are two kinds of fans in Cleveland, die hard Browns fans which make up about 95% of the population with only passing interest in the Tribe and the 5% who are the exact opposite.

    But keep telling yourself that there are great fans in Cincinnati, like back in the playoffs in 1995 when no one showed up.

    Call it pathetic or whatever you want. No one gives a shit how you feel piling it on Cleveland fans.
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  3. #23
    Senior PMI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Muskie View Post
    Guys lay off the attendance issue. This franchise has been in first in few months only see them tank as the season wears on. People are not going to invest until they see something a little more. Like first place in late July.

    90% of baseball attendance is based on whether your team is a winner. Nothing else matters. Just the way it is.
    That's pretty much true of every pro sports team, with the exception of several NFL teams. I always crack up at the snobby fans who target other fan bases for being bandwagon fans. Literally every single fan base of any sport that has ever existed started off on the bandwagon, and the only way the bandwagon gets rolling is by the team getting good. It has to start somewhere. There are very few, if not zero exceptions to the general rule that if a franchise is sucking long enough, the attendance is going to drop significantly.

  4. #24
    All-Conference Kahns Krazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Muskie View Post
    No actually...you are wrong Emp.

    The Cubs and the Cardinals are the exception. Boston and Philly only drew fans when they were winning, just like Cleveland. The Tigers drew just like the Tribe back in the day. You have to look at this as the whole picture. Here in DC attendance is only slightly up, simply because the team is better.

    And you missed my point regarding this year. In the past few seasons, the Indians have been in first. Cleveland fans are interested in knowing they will be a winner, which is why they are not coming. That's just a fact. There are two kinds of fans in Cleveland, die hard Browns fans which make up about 95% of the population with only passing interest in the Tribe and the 5% who are the exact opposite.

    But keep telling yourself that there are great fans in Cincinnati, like back in the playoffs in 2012 when no one showed up.

    Call it pathetic or whatever you want. No one gives a shit how you feel piling it on Cleveland fans.
    Updated that for you. Game 3 was a packed house, but there were free tickets floating all over for 4 and 5.
    "Give a toast to my brother, hug your family, and do everything possible to live the life you dream of. God Bless."
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  5. #25
    Supporting Member DC Muskie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMI View Post
    That's pretty much true of every pro sports team, with the exception of several NFL teams. I always crack up at the snobby fans who target other fan bases for being bandwagon fans. Literally every single fan base of any sport that has ever existed started off on the bandwagon, and the only way the bandwagon gets rolling is by the team getting good. It has to start somewhere. There are very few, if not zero exceptions to the general rule that if a franchise is sucking long enough, the attendance is going to drop significantly.
    Exactly. When you point to the Cubs as an example of people who care no matter what, it sort of proves the point that for the remaining 29 teams that winning is important.

    Look at Boston. Shitty attendance in the 80's and 90's, them BOOM, they start winning and build a streak. Now that they have had a few terrible seasons, streak broken, attendance down.

    Baseball is not football in this country.
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  6. #26
    Hall of Famer Masterofreality's Avatar
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    Only statement..

    Indians still in First.
    "I Got CHAMPIONS in that Lockerroom!" -Stanley Burrell

  7. #27
    Supporting Member Emp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Muskie View Post
    No actually...you are wrong Emp.

    The Cubs and the Cardinals are the exception. Boston and Philly only drew fans when they were winning, just like Cleveland. The Tigers drew just like the Tribe back in the day. You have to look at this as the whole picture. Here in DC attendance is only slightly up, simply because the team is better.

    And you missed my point regarding this year. In the past few seasons, the Indians have been in first. Cleveland fans are interested in knowing they will be a winner, which is why they are not coming. That's just a fact. There are two kinds of fans in Cleveland, die hard Browns fans which make up about 95% of the population with only passing interest in the Tribe and the 5% who are the exact opposite.

    But keep telling yourself that there are great fans in Cincinnati, like back in the playoffs in 1995 when no one showed up.

    Call it pathetic or whatever you want. No one gives a shit how you feel piling it on Cleveland fans.
    Actually, I'm right, but only if you look at the facts.

    Boston, in a 30,000 seat stadium beat the major league average attendance in all but 7 of 54 years from 1046 to 2000. Phillies played without two top stars and .500 ball last season and still lead the majors in averagew, total, and percentage of seats sold attendance.

    As for Tigers having down attendance like Tribe in down years, you might want to look at the record, because you're simply dead wrong. The last time the Tigers averaged less than 10K a game, it was the middle of WWII, and never since. Cleveland, in an 80K stadium, averaged less than 10,000 15 times since the war, and as recently as 1984. Detroit like Boston has beaten the MLB average attendance all but 7 of the 54 years 1946-2000; Cleveland was under the average MLB attendance for 37 of those same 54 seasons. If you take out the Indians 48 World Series/new stadium year, and the Tigers 68 and 84 world series wins, the average attendance differential for the two teams in non-contention years is about 2:1.

    I totally agree it's a one sport pro town.
    It's a still great day to be a Muskie, but a sad day to be a supporting member of this board.

  8. #28
    All-Conference XU 87's Avatar
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    Never mind.
    Last edited by XU 87; 05-27-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  9. #29
    Sophomore RoseyMuskie's Avatar
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    Indians no longer in first. #tailspindians

  10. #30
    Supporting Member DC Muskie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emp View Post
    Actually, I'm right, but only if you look at the facts.

    Boston, in a 30,000 seat stadium beat the major league average attendance in all but 7 of 54 years from 1046 to 2000. Phillies played without two top stars and .500 ball last season and still lead the majors in averagew, total, and percentage of seats sold attendance.

    As for Tigers having down attendance like Tribe in down years, you might want to look at the record, because you're simply dead wrong. The last time the Tigers averaged less than 10K a game, it was the middle of WWII, and never since. Cleveland, in an 80K stadium, averaged less than 10,000 15 times since the war, and as recently as 1984. Detroit like Boston has beaten the MLB average attendance all but 7 of the 54 years 1946-2000; Cleveland was under the average MLB attendance for 37 of those same 54 seasons. If you take out the Indians 48 World Series/new stadium year, and the Tigers 68 and 84 world series wins, the average attendance differential for the two teams in non-contention years is about 2:1.

    I totally agree it's a one sport pro town.
    Like I said, you're wrong and nobody gives a shit about you piling on Cleveland fans.
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