Which Schools Should Be Added to the Big East?

[UCGRAD4X]

Wichita State? Are you people nuts? I mean, I'd love to have a Xavier home game every year, but no. Just no.

WSU wouldn't be on top of my list either - but I wouldn't completely eliminate them. I'm wondering about your adamant response, especially after your long-time support for them here and their recent success. Interesting...for some reason. Maybe it is the 'nuts' thing after all.

[GoMuskies]

I support Wichita State because I live here. And their recent success is just that...recent. Would anyone have considered WSU a good candidate for the Big East three weeks ago? Because a 9 seed got hot for a few games we want to permanently add them as a conference member?

Prior to last year, WSU had been in the NCAA Tournament I think 1 time in 15-20 years. They spent a long time out in the wilderness playing the role of LaSalle in the MVC. Mark Turgeon did a good job getting the program back on its feet, and Gregg Marshall was a homerun hire, but Gregg Marshall will probably leave in the next five years. That's what coaches do. And there's no reason to think Wichita State will automatically be able to hire a capable replacement.

Most importantly, though, Wichita is in the middle of nowhere. It's fine if you live here, but if you're trying to get in here and then get out of here it pretty much sucks. It's not particularly close to Omaha, and it's a three day forced march from every other school in the league (to be fair, there's a direct flight from Chicago, so DePaul wouldn't have trouble getting here). Plus, the university itself has basically nothing in common with any of the other schools (other than not having football so that the bulk of its attention is on basketball...but baseball is a big deal here too). Wichita has a large Catholic community, so I guess it has that going for it in terms of fit with the other cities/schools.

I just don't see it.

[xubrew]

12 is a football number designed solely to allow for a conference championship game. It is not basketball oriented and, therefore, should be banned as an acceptable number of teams for a basketball-centric conference.

This

[xubrew]

It's interesting to me that some people would want Dayton added.
If you throw out personal feelings about that school, and consider that if you were interested in continuing to play them we can always schedule them as an OOC game, I can't think of a reason you would want them in the same conference.

Conversely there is a good reason to not be in the same conference...recruiting. Although recruiting is truly nationwide these days, why not have a natural conference separation for the state of Ohio. OSU is already in place, Butler and Indiana right across the border...why would you want to create a conference peer right up I-75?

I think Fox would favor Dayton simply because they currently do not have any sort of deal with them, and they'll score decent ratings on the lower tier TV games, which will likely be on FSN Ohio.

I don't particularly think of Dayton as being a huge plus, but I don't think they're a detriment either. We've been in the same conference, and recruiting has not been an issue. I can't think of an example of where a program's recruiting was effected all that much because they were in the same conference with another team that was close by. I can't think of any. There are more examples of conference rivals elevating the recruiting at both programs than there are of one program suffocating the other. Richmond and VCU probably raised both of their profiles.

At the same time, not being in the same conference as another team, or not playing another team, doesn't really do anything either. Butler not being in the Big Ten, and not playing Purdue, IU or Notre Dame didn't do a thing to slow down their excelleration. Washington dropped Gonzaga from the schedule because they didn't feel that it was in their best interest to compete with them, and has never been as good as they were when they used to play them.

At the end of the day, I don't think having Dayton in the conference does anything to help Xavier. I don't think having Dayton in the conference does anything to hurt Xavier. I don't think leaving them out helps or hurts either. I just don't think it matters. Busses are cheaper than planes, and that's nice for your non-revenue sports, but other than that it makes no difference. I know people want them out because it's fun to rub it in their faces, but they're neither an asset nor a threat.

[xubrew]

I support Wichita State because I live here. And their recent success is just that...recent. Would anyone have considered WSU a good candidate for the Big East three weeks ago? Because a 9 seed got hot for a few games we want to permanently add them as a conference member?

Prior to last year, WSU had been in the NCAA Tournament I think 1 time in 15-20 years. They spent a long time out in the wilderness playing the role of LaSalle in the MVC. Mark Turgeon did a good job getting the program back on its feet, and Gregg Marshall was a homerun hire, but Gregg Marshall will probably leave in the next five years. That's what coaches do. And there's no reason to think Wichita State will automatically be able to hire a capable replacement.

Most importantly, though, Wichita is in the middle of nowhere. It's fine if you live here, but if you're trying to get in here and then get out of here it pretty much sucks. It's not particularly close to Omaha, and it's a three day forced march from every other school in the league (to be fair, there's a direct flight from Chicago, so DePaul wouldn't have trouble getting here). Plus, the university itself has basically nothing in common with any of the other schools (other than not having football so that the bulk of its attention is on basketball...but baseball is a big deal here too). Wichita has a large Catholic community, so I guess it has that going for it in terms of fit with the other cities/schools.

I just don't see it.

I think SLU has been overvalued based on what they've done over the past two years as well. I would describe them in very much the same way as you described Wichita State. Wichita State had a better team last year, and although SLU appeared to be better this year, what Wichita did in the tournament was slightly more memorable.

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Jim Crews. Saint Louis doesn't have a long history of success. In fact, prior to Majerus, they were perhaps one of the worst teams that wasn't considered to be a "low major." I don't see a whole lot that indicates to me that they'll be able to sustain what they've done over the past two years. I think they have potential, but I don't think they're necessarily proven.

[MHettel]

I think SLU has been overvalued based on what they've done over the past two years as well. I would describe them in very much the same way as you described Wichita State. Wichita State had a better team last year, and although SLU appeared to be better this year, what Wichita did in the tournament was slightly more memorable.

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Jim Crews. Saint Louis doesn't have a long history of success. In fact, prior to Majerus, they were perhaps one of the worst teams that wasn't considered to be a "low major." I don't see a whole lot that indicates to me that they'll be able to sustain what they've done over the past two years. I think they have potential, but I don't think they're necessarily proven.

I disagree on SLU. From the mid 1980's, SLU has had on and off success. They had some decent finishes in the CUSA, and while their start in the A-10 was fairly mediocre, I think they have performed in the upper 1/4 of the A-10 over the last 4-5 years.

SLU has a facility that rivals Cintas. It's almost brand new, and while I dont know the exact size, it's probably one of the nicer arenas out there.

St. Louis is kind of a wierd town. I grew up there. 100% of the people are Baseball / Cardinals fans. Hockey is popular in pockets. NFL football is also popular, but not to the extent that some cities embrace it. College football is kind of underwhelming in St. Louis. College Basketball is also just casually embraced by the city in general, with most people following Mizzou, although maybe only 20% of college graudates actually attended Mizzou. NBA basketball isn't on the radar in stl. A strong, competitive SLU Basketball team could tap into an underserved market and pick up alot of college fans that follow Mizzou. Lots of televisions in St. Louis, many of which are disproportionally NOT currently watching college basketball.

And Jim Crews is not an issue. Thats very short term thinking. If they move to the BE, then either Crews is successful and teh issue resolves itself, or he's unsuccessfull and teh issue resolves itself. It will be interesting to see the stature of the BE as it pertains to coaches. Will coaches at current "big conference" jobs consider it an upgrade to take a position at a BE school, or will it be the other way around????

[xudash]

You can shut this thread down for now:

http://ncronline.org/news/people/dep...ever-part-plan

The addition of Butler, a private but nonreligious school, helped cool off any dreams of a faith-based league. Should the league expand further -- an option not currently on the table -- Holtschneider said the league wouldn't limit the search to Catholic schools exclusively, such as the much-rumored Saint Louis University and the University of Dayton in Ohio.

For now, the new Big East has turned its attention to more pressing tasks. The league bylaws could be completed by the end of the week, then attention can turn toward getting a commissioner in place by the summer. Add to that hiring a conference staff, locating its headquarters, and finalizing schedules and officiating.

[XU-PA]

Five votes on this thread for Dayton.
Find those 5, have the drawn and quartered, hang their carcasses from the Cintas Center flag poles

[coasterville95]

Those were our Dayton friends who visit out boards. Had to have been.

So it looks like no secondary announcement before July 1st, that and the A10 talking about raising the exit fines and imposing other sanctions may keep that other school away for awhile.

[xubrew]

I disagree on SLU. From the mid 1980's, SLU has had on and off success. They had some decent finishes in the CUSA, and while their start in the A-10 was fairly mediocre, I think they have performed in the upper 1/4 of the A-10 over the last 4-5 years.

SLU has a facility that rivals Cintas. It's almost brand new, and while I dont know the exact size, it's probably one of the nicer arenas out there.

St. Louis is kind of a wierd town. I grew up there. 100% of the people are Baseball / Cardinals fans. Hockey is popular in pockets. NFL football is also popular, but not to the extent that some cities embrace it. College football is kind of underwhelming in St. Louis. College Basketball is also just casually embraced by the city in general, with most people following Mizzou, although maybe only 20% of college graudates actually attended Mizzou. NBA basketball isn't on the radar in stl. A strong, competitive SLU Basketball team could tap into an underserved market and pick up alot of college fans that follow Mizzou. Lots of televisions in St. Louis, many of which are disproportionally NOT currently watching college basketball.

And Jim Crews is not an issue. Thats very short term thinking. If they move to the BE, then either Crews is successful and teh issue resolves itself, or he's unsuccessfull and teh issue resolves itself. It will be interesting to see the stature of the BE as it pertains to coaches. Will coaches at current "big conference" jobs consider it an upgrade to take a position at a BE school, or will it be the other way around????

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with because I don't really disagree with anything you said.

SLU is page two news (if that) in the city. SLU has never been to a Sweet Sixteen. Prior to last season, SLU's last tournament appearance was in 2000. They've been good the last two years, but they don't exactly have a history of successful coaching changes. So, I think they're overvalued. Similar to the way GO thinks Wichita is overvalued. Is there another team out there with as few accomplishments as SLU that is as valued as SLU??