Conference carousel to start spinning again?

JimmyTwoTimes37 · 09-20-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by paulxu

NYTImes guy that broke the Syr/Pitt story has tweeted a report where OU is willing to stay in Big 12 if changes made...new commissioner, Texas backing up on the LHN, etc.

http://newsok.com/article/3605958

What fun!!

Sounds like a blast. Who wouldn't want to repeat all this next year?

XUFan09 · 09-20-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by POLLYANNA

The topic starter has a source he says is involved in the day to day operation of Xavier basketball, informing him that the two Kansas schools are joining the Big East.
Free advice: Get a new "reliable source."
Here is the reality, from media types in the Big 12 area.
1) Texas, Texas Tech. Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State are finalizing their entrance into the Pac 12. Done! Proof is the Board of Regents at Texas and Oklahoma have given their Presidents full authority to "do what is best." Fact: Oklahoma cannot go with out Oklahoma State, nor can Texas go without Texas Tech (State Legs, ya know)
2) The two Kansas schools are not "joining" the Big East. They will be part of the merger of the four orphans (Iowa State and Baylor the other two). Those four will bring aboard Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, West Virginia, and Memphis to form a ten team "Big 12" and retain their BCS slot.
3) Missouri will join the SEC. They (the SEC) need one member to be at 14. WVa would love to be that entry, but $$$ dictate it will be Missouri (St Louis and Kansas City TV market and a state population of six million top Huntington, Morgantown, and Charleston and the rest of the hills and valleys by millions.
4) UConn, Rutgers, will be the 15th and 16th teams in the ACC.
5) So, the Big East is left with eight members, all of whom are basketball only. That is where teams join up, and the only question is what number of schools does the Big East want to be at? I think, since for a long time they themselves have mumbled about sixteen being too many, the number will be 12 or 14, the former being the best operative number from a scheduling standout.
6) That brings us to who gets an admission ticket. Xavier and Butler will be the first two choices and unambitiously approved.
7. Who else? Dayton thinks they are "automatic" and that ain't so. The Big East will opt for UMass and URI first (they offset the mid-west Xavier-Butler factor). Charlotte will want to join, but the Big East knows well that it is just a matter of time before Charlotte jumps elsewhere with its new D-1 football program.
8) The Big Ten, smug as it can be, will now regret not getting Rutgers and Missouri in their next go-round with the TV people (numbers matter and the ACC ate 'em up.)
9) I sure hope everything develops as I think ... and that Dayton gets left out of the new Big East. They'll whine and cry, but it will be sweet revenge to say adios just like they screwed us when they jumped to the Great Midwest and in essence killed the MCC.

In defense of the OP, he never said "joining." He said "invited" and he included the possibility of KU/KSU declining the invite and what that would mean for Xavier. His source hasn't proven good or bad yet.

**xubrew** · 09-20-2011, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by LA Muskie

Well, yes and no. The media money is because of football, not basketball. That's not to say there isn't a share of the spend on basketball, but the real money is paid for the right to broadcast the football games.

As for Syracuse and Pitt, despite their recent results both have programs with a history of success, both have maintained their fan-bases to a large extent, and both bring relatively large media markets. PLUS they are stellar basketball programs added to a conference that probably makes a greater proportionate share of its media money from basketball (but still less so than football).

Syracuse and Pitt were perfect additions to the ACC. And what I like most about the ACC is that it knows what it is, and what it is not. It won't ever be the #1 football conference, but it will be in play. And that basketball league. Wow. Just wow. Adding Syracuse and Pitt (and likely UConn) to that mix? Down the road, they could probably make PPV channel for in-conference games (much like the NFL Sunday Ticket) and make a killing. I'd watch those conference games over just about anything else.

LA, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying. I am pointing out that at the end of the day those eight schools without FBS football are still full Big East members. The conference cannot disband without their say so. I was merely disagreeing with the notion that it made more sense for the Big Twelve to swallow the Big East. It doesn't. The remaining full Big East members would probably rather have the Big Twelve come to them, but even that can't happen if the eight basketball schools do not approve. Those eight schools are very key players that are being overlooked. Had ND, Nova, Gtown, etc not given the green light for Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida to come on board last time, it never would have happened. That's one of the reasons that Marquette and DePaul also came on board. They wanted an even balance between the football and basketball schools and they were in a position to make it happen.

I'm not saying the Big East is stable. It isn't. I just don't think it's quite as unstable as the current Big Twelve. I also don't think anyone can say it is all about football when eight (well, seven plus ND) key players don't even have football teams at the FBS level...or at all in some cases.

**xubrew** · 09-20-2011, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

Can Louisville and WV still join?

UC, UL and WVU would get the league back to twelve.

**GoMuskies** · 09-20-2011, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by xubrew

UC, UL and WVU would get the league back to twelve.

Can you imagine what a break that would be for those three? Think you're getting completely hosed and end up in a league with OK, OK State and TX instead (for now). It would be great if that's the way it works out...especially if the Big XII takes TCU instead of UC to get to 12.

**STL_XUfan** · 09-20-2011, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by XUglow

Apparently Mizzou "leaked" the SEC invite information to try and smoke out an offer from the Big Ten as an option.

Awesome, because this strategy has worked so well for them in the past. Seriously I am just going to cut all internet and phone lines going out of Columbia.

Founding Father · 09-20-2011, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by xubrew

UC, UL and WVU would get the league back to twelve.

So could BYU, TCU and WVU. Not sure what UC brings to the party.

**muskienick** · 09-20-2011, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by paulxu

What's the ideal size if we did end up in a re-shuffled BE?

I know 9 sounds good to play everybody twice. 12 sounds good with 2 divisions, play your guys twice, the others once.

But if football driven conferences like the ACC get to 16, does that become the ideal size for a basketball only conference...TV time, markets, etc.?

Just get the best available programs that are not interested in having FBS/BCS football Conference aspirations and you're in good shape. I always liked nine for the reason you gave above. It makes a totally level playing field for all members since you play every other member home and away. Furthermore, it is a chance to weed out those unwilling or unable to compete at the highest levels and, let's face it, it's time to forget loyalties and longtime buddies and create the best possible Conference you can. You have only one chance to make that happen. So do it now screwing football at every turn!

Georgetown is definitely in. St. John's is in. Once Villanova wakes up to the reality that any big investment in their football program won't work in Philly, they will be in. Marquette is in. Xavier is definitely in. DePaul is in because they are lucky enough to be located in Chicago, a megalopolis and a hotbed for recruiting. Butler is in because they have been successful for a long time with numerous coaches, have a decent playing venue and access to others, and are located in a large, midwestern media center and a great locale for recruiting as well. Notre Dame is in if they continue to spurn the Big 10 and ACC for membership.

9-Member New Big East
Georgetown
St. John's
Villanova
Richmond
Xavier
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Notre Dame

12-Member New Big East
East: Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Richmond, Seton Hall, Providence
West: Xavier, DePaul, Butler, Marquette, Notre Dame, St. Louis

I'd take either scenario in a New York second!!!