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Thread: Iran

  1. #11
    All-Conference Snipe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan Muskie View Post
    How do you think the people of North Korea feel about their government threatening nuclear warfare against the world's superpowers? I'll tell you this: If I were a North Korean civilian, I'd be finding any which way possible to get the hell out of dodge. It's like this regime is begging to get annihilated.
    I think the North Korean people in general don't like their government at all. They have had mass starvation a few times if I remember correctly. We ship in food to save people. I often wonder if that aid helps keep the government in power. I tend to think it does. If we cut off the food aid people would die for sure, but if more people died maybe they would find the courage to bring about the end of the regime.

    China props up the Norks as well. It isn't because they share a communist ideology. China has mostly shed communism in the name of the free market. China gives support because they don't want millions of refugees. Those Norks are poor as phuck. They are malnourished. As a result they are shorter and weigh less than south Koreans. I am sure their educationcal system combined with their malnutrition hasn't been good for their conditioning. They are just going to be a drag on the Chinese economy. I am not sure the South Koreans want them either.

    Here is a picture of North and South Korea at night from space:



    I think that pretty much says it all.

    When the Soviet Union collapsed, its economy wasn't even the size of South Korea's in terms of output. South Korea was then I think the 13th largest econmic power in the world. In GDP, South Korea is still 13th in the world.

    GDP is measured in as nominal and as purchasing power parity (PPP).

    South Korea GDP (PPP): $27,646
    South Korea GDP (Nominal): $19,504

    North Korea GDP (PPP): $1,700
    North Korea GDP (Nominal): $1,116

    Those stats are all from wiki.

    Economic stats can confuse people. For those that aren't confused, most of them get bored with them and don't like them even when they understand them. That is why I listed the picture.

    They say a picture says a thousand words. That picture actually says a lot more than that.

    RIP Brian Dargin McCormick

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
    Where did I blame America for anything? I said that I believe that the CIA had a hand in the election, that's not a stretch to say at all. The CIA (and the USA) would obviously back the reformist candidate that had the support of the younger populace.

    We want either a reformist president in Iran, or, better yet, an unstable Iran.

    Doesn't matter anyway, the president for that country is a figurehead, the Mullahs are the ones who really run the country. Do you, Snipe, really believe that anything would change because of the election of one president? I sure as Hell don't.

    The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

    (forgive my disjointed thoughts, I just finished an 8 hour drive from upstate New York)

    I HATE dayton.

    I don't have a lot of confidence in our CIA. Our CIA doesn't have a good track record. In the Clinton years, India set of a nuclear bomb and we knew nothing about it beforehand. While they were still scratching their heads, Pakistan responded and set off a nuclear bomb of their own. We had no clue that Pakistan had nuclear technology.

    After the first Gulf War in the early 90's, we found out that Sadaam was much closer to having a nuke than the CIA ever thought. He was right on the doorstep. Couple years maybe. The CIA had no clue.

    The CIA didn't know anything about the first attack on the World Trade Center during the Clinton Administration. The CIA didn't know anything about the second devesating attack on 9/11. 9/11 was a total failure of the CIA. But it just wasn't one, it was one in a long string of total failures.

    The CIA director said that Weapons of Mass Distruction was a "Slam Dunk" going into or current war in Iraq. That CIA Director (George Tenet) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. He advised George Bush that finding WMD's would be a slam dunk. No neocon there. And he was the head of the CIA. We didn't find them. Bush was blamed, and many of the attacks came from the CIA itself.

    The CIA hasn't aquitted itself very well. It is fair to say that we don't know of the attacks that they have stopped. But looking at it from my point of view, I don't think that they do much that helps us, and I certainly don't think they have the power to cause riots in Iran.

    Those Iranian people are taking up the rioting on their own cause. That is what I believe. Again, think of what 25% inflation would do to a lifetime of savings. Inflation destroys wealth. Get ready, because with current government spending inflation will spike here too. If it ever gets to 25% it will be a disaster. It is a serious thing.

    The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.
    Why can't they? That is how the Mullahs got power in the first place. Some of the Iranians are begging Obama for help.

    I hope the people of Iran say "YES WE CAN!"
    RIP Brian Dargin McCormick

  3. #13
    Supporting Member PM Thor's Avatar
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    All fair points Snipe.

    Maybe I'm more pessimistic than you are, but I suspect the Revolutionary Guard is more than willing to kick the bejesus out of a bunch of revolutionaries in the name of the Mullahs.

    I suspect a few days of some protests and rioting in the cities, maybe some international protest, but I highly, highly doubt that it will get anywhere at all. In fact, I bet there is some serious bloodshed coming. Tiannemen (sp) Square redux.

    I really hope I'm wrong, but countries with governments like Iran don't give up power based on running street battles and the like.

    I HATE dayton.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
    Hmm, I wonder if the CIA had any influence or money invested in the latest Iranian election....

    Yeah...no way. None. At. All.

    I HATE dayton.
    I looked at your quote again. You say you weren't "blaming America". To prove your point, nowhere did you ever "blame america" that I can find.

    I wonder what you think about the uprising in Iran. Do you think it is good? I don't get that from what you said. I didn't get that even in your clarification.

    I take this post as a skeptical one, where you are skeptical of the news because you think that these uprisings are a result of American foriegn policy. Hence my point. What should be good news becomes 'what have we done now'?

    It is hard to read that and think any other way.
    RIP Brian Dargin McCormick

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
    All fair points Snipe.

    Maybe I'm more pessimistic than you are, but I suspect the Revolutionary Guard is more than willing to kick the bejesus out of a bunch of revolutionaries in the name of the Mullahs.

    I suspect a few days of some protests and rioting in the cities, maybe some international protest, but I highly, highly doubt that it will get anywhere at all. In fact, I bet there is some serious bloodshed coming. Tiannemen (sp) Square redux.

    I really hope I'm wrong, but countries with governments like Iran don't give up power based on running street battles and the like.

    I HATE dayton.
    I have become more pessimistic myself but I still hold out hope for the Iranian people. They were our friends and allies for many years. Many of the Iranian diaspora live in the United States. The people like us a hell of a lot more than the rulling class of mullahs does. Our best bet is with those people, and they are uprising. They are fighting. They are protesting.

    Iran did have a revolution in the 1970s. It isn't like it can't happen again. It already has happened. I would like to see another one right now. I am rooting for it. Will it happen? Probably not, but right now the situation is tense. If the government were to fall, it would change international policitics tomorrow.
    RIP Brian Dargin McCormick

  6. #16
    Supporting Member PM Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipe View Post
    I looked at your quote again. You say you weren't "blaming America". To prove your point, nowhere did you ever "blame america" that I can find.

    I wonder what you think about the uprising in Iran. Do you think it is good? I don't get that from what you said. I didn't get that even in your clarification.

    I take this post as a skeptical one, where you are skeptical of the news because you think that these uprisings are a result of American foriegn policy. Hence my point. What should be good news becomes 'what have we done now'?

    It is hard to read that and think any other way.
    I absolutely think it's great that the Iranian people are rising up, even if it is just in the cities, and even if I think it's doomed to fail. (It is widely known how the rural areas vote)

    It's really not about the CIA and their intelligence gathering ability, it's more about the support to add instability to an enemy country. It wasn't meant to be a commentary about the validity or possible success of that uprising, it was my rather simple attempt to point out that an uprising in quite possibly our most staunch enemy is most assuredly backed by US interests. That's all.

    I hope they succeed. I hope they overcome that oppressive regime. I hope the CIA offers as much support as we can do without giving proof of doing so too.

    I HATE dayton.

  7. #17
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    Shots fired as more than 100,000 Iranians defy march ban

    The people are coming out in massive numbers and the government has starting shooting them.

    Shots have been fired at an opposition rally in Tehran where more than 100,000 Iranians were protesting against the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    An Associated Press photographer saw one person killed when shots were fired from a compound for pro-government militiamen. Several other people appeared to have been seriously wounded in Tehran's Azadi Square. BBC's Persian service quoted an eyewitness saying that four protesters have been killed.
    I read the first line and I didn't know if 100,000 were at that rally or if 100,000 were protesting citywide and shots were fired at one rally.

    I don't know. Iran has asked the press to leave the country. The Revolution will not be televised (or so they think). They have censored the internet, but things are still getting out. We live in the information age and you simply can't keep a lid on stuff like the good old dictatorship days.

    Graphic Pictures (nsfw) at this Iranian website.

    Just found this link to follow the revolution.

    They had this photo with this caption:



    "The estimate we had of 100,000-200,000 seems like it is too small"
    Sweet Jesus.
    RIP Brian Dargin McCormick

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PM Thor View Post
    Where did I blame America for anything? I said that I believe that the CIA had a hand in the election, that's not a stretch to say at all. The CIA (and the USA) would obviously back the reformist candidate that had the support of the younger populace.

    We want either a reformist president in Iran, or, better yet, an unstable Iran.

    Doesn't matter anyway, the president for that country is a figurehead, the Mullahs are the ones who really run the country. Do you, Snipe, really believe that anything would change because of the election of one president? I sure as Hell don't.

    The people of Iran can't oust the Mullahs, the real power.

    (forgive my disjointed thoughts, I just finished an 8 hour drive from upstate New York)

    I HATE dayton.

    For a minute there I thought you were talking about the US in a few years hence. Just sayin'.
    A drunk was in front of a judge. The judge says, "You've been brought here for drinking." The drunk says, "Okay, let's get started."

  9. #19
    Senior Moderator American X's Avatar
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    XavierHoops officially supports the Iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of Iran.

    American X personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the Persian Gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.
    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

  10. #20
    Supporting Member PM Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by American X View Post
    XavierHoops officially supports the Iranian people in their quest for free and fair elections that represents the will of the people. We respect their will and their voice and their courage in the face of the dangers they now face. Our hearts go out to the people of Iran.

    American X personally hates those fascist motherfuckers and hopes they get collectively rounded up and tossed into the Persian Gulf. In the meantime, his heart aches for those desparately brave souls and will pray they somehow peaceably find their way to freedom.
    It's freaking incredible that the people are being so open with their anger. I would have expected to see everyone wearing masks to conceal their identities from the regime. I hope they win. It would be probably one of the most important events to ever occur in my lifetime if it happens.

    I HATE dayton.

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