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Thread: Junior vs A-Rod

  1. #11
    All-Conference XU 87's Avatar
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    I don't hate Griffey personally. For that matter, I don't even know the guy. Maybe he was the second coming of Mother Teresa. But on the field, he was a lazy and generally unproductive player, particularly compared with how much he was paid. And he apparently was pretty bad in the locker room.

    I realize he was injured. But that never excused his lack of effort and entitlement attitude in the locker room.

    I think his trade was the primary reason the Reds have sucked this decade. They had way too much money wrapped up in an unproductive player.

    I think it goes down as the worst trade in Reds history. Say what you want about the Frank Robinson trade. But in the ten years after he was traded, the Reds went to the World Series 4 times, winning twice.

    The Griffey trade crippled this organization for 9 years. It was a terrible move by Bowden and Lindner. When the trade was made, all we heard was that the organization "could afford it". The organization could not afford it. And the stupidity was compounded by giving him a 9 year contract.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by XU 87 View Post
    I don't hate Griffey personally. For that matter, I don't even know the guy. Maybe he was the second coming of Mother Teresa. But on the field, he was a lazy and generally unproductive player, particularly compared with how much he was paid. And he apparently was pretty bad in the locker room.

    I realize he was injured. But that never excused his lack of effort and entitlement attitude in the locker room.

    I think his trade was the primary reason the Reds have sucked this decade. They had way too much money wrapped up in an unproductive player.

    I think it goes down as the worst trade in Reds history. Say what you want about the Frank Robinson trade. But in the ten years after he was traded, the Reds went to the World Series 4 times, winning twice.

    The Griffey trade crippled this organization for 9 years. It was a terrible move by Bowden and Lindner. When the trade was made, all we heard was that the organization "could afford it". The organization could not afford it. And the stupidity was compounded by giving him a 9 year contract.
    Definitely true.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford View Post
    Isn't Dwayne Wade being sued by his soon-to-be ex-wife for giving him an STD recently?

    South Beach baby!
    Exactly, see, he helped her get that. Very generous man off the field.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by XU 87 View Post
    I think it goes down as the worst trade in Reds history. Say what you want about the Frank Robinson trade. But in the ten years after he was traded, the Reds went to the World Series 4 times, winning twice.

    The Griffey trade crippled this organization for 9 years. It was a terrible move by Bowden and Lindner. When the trade was made, all we heard was that the organization "could afford it". The organization could not afford it. And the stupidity was compounded by giving him a 9 year contract.
    Wow....I couldn't disagree more. I love Griffey, but also lament the fact that his years in Cincinnati were, for lack of a better word, pathetic. However, while the amount of money wrapped up in Griffey (agreed it is too much in one player for a small market team unless that player is one of the best, which he was when we got him, but wasn't while he was here) and the apparent clubhouse problems he brought were problems, the majority of the blame for the inexcusable lack of success lies with Carl Lindner. He was a horrible owner who cared very little about anything but making money. Him and the GMs (namely Bowden) did nothing to help the team around Griffey. They expected Kearns and Dunn to come in and be the saviors of the franchise and gave too much money to bad players (a la Mike Stanton and Eric Milton). If a GOOD GM had been in place, a winner could have been built around Griffey, pure and simple. Was Griffey part of the problem? Most likely due to the handcuffing of the payroll and his clubhouse problems. Was it his fault? Hell no.

    The Frank Robinson trade is still many times worse than the Griffey trade.

  5. #15
    Writer wkrq59's Avatar
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    Talking

    Griffey's acceptance here after his injuries--which many players would have retired from rather than go through the rehabilitation--was typical of Cincinnati.
    BTW, I'll take the word of Dr Kremchek
    re : the severity of those injuries.
    That said, we have the word of the Reds broadcasters--Marty Brennaman and Jeff Bentley--that Junior "didn't hustle. " Those opinions were rendered first when no one knew how badly he was hurt and later when he was limited by age and injuries.
    Envy like a dirty flame still blackens all that it can not reach.
    As far as Griffey's salary is concerned, he was celebrated here as a bargain at the time the trade was made. As far as Lindner and Bowden are or were concerned, both quickly acccepted his willingness to reduce and defer salary so certain better players could be obtained.
    GG. You are going to despise Griffey no matter what anyone says or what reasons or proof to the contrary is offered.
    No, we can not prove Griffy didn't use performance enhancing drugs. It is very difficult to disprove a negative. But I am certain that when Canseco wrote his book, if he had any inkling that Griffey was involved in anything, he would have written it.
    Can Griffey be blamed for the lousy performance of overpaid pitchers brought in here? No way. Can he be blamed for the failure of players other than him for failure to hit? No way.
    Can he wonder why he is the target of vitriol and Adam Dunn is cut enough slack to stretch a rope from here to Seattle? I won't even answer that because I, like you GG, will never believe otherwise.
    Bottom line, 5 years from the day he retires, Ken Griffey Jr. goes into Cooperstown. And I'm sure the cap on his bust in the hall will bear a Seattle Mariners' logo, just as the one Frank Robinson has on his is an Orioles'.
    Just as a prophet is without honor in his home town, so Ken Griffey Jr. has left Cincinnati where in some quarters he is still hated.
    Is it petty to continue to hold hatred in your heart for someone you probably don't know, never will and have that hatred fueled by rumor, innuendo and damnable lies? Maybe. But it is what it is.
    Is it similar to hating Thad Matta and Sean Miller? Probably. But then hate was never beneficial to anyone, especially the hater.:D:D

  6. #16
    Supporting Member GoMuskies's Avatar
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    I don't hate Griffey. I'm just not sure why any Reds fan would really like him much unless they just appreciated what he did for Seattle. He was mostly an average to bad 3-hole hitter and CF while with the Reds.

  7. #17
    All-Conference XU 87's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=wkrq59;125565]
    That said, we have the word of the Reds broadcasters--Marty Brennaman and Jeff Bentley--that Junior "didn't hustle. " Those opinions were rendered first when no one knew how badly he was hurt and later when he was limited by age and injuries.
    /QUOTE]

    Age and injuries don't keep a guy from running hard when hits a ball off the wall or run to catch a fly ball. If a major league baseball player is unable to run from home to second
    (180 feet) then he shouldn't be playing. I am pretty confident that Griffey could run 180 feet. At times, he chose not to.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gladdenguy View Post
    Do you have proof he didn't do steroids? I know I don't.
    You know, I like this mentality. I would then lean towards thinking every player took steriods. Luckily, a few have already been confirmed for us so this witch hunt will only zero in on 99% of the league's participants.

    No wait, gimme a friggin' break...Griffey on steroids?? The man was not strong, ever. The man had an ass the size of Rhode Island.

    I just fail to see any evidence leaning towards confirming steroids rumors for Griffey, or at least any evidence that really lends itself to thinking that he dabbled in roids. I do not mean to attack your thoughts and opinions, I just strongly hold an opinion that Griffey did it the right way. I also think that thinking an individual abused without evidence is a little aggressive. Obviously, the recent steroid issues have clouded the entire era of baseball that I have lived through, I still believe that it is not entirely difficult to make sound judgments regarding who abused and who likely did not.

    Edit: In addition, let us take this new book by Selena Roberts with a mountain of salt. She did disgrace herself once already in the Duke Lacrosse scandal. We all know ARod abused, but Selena is taking it to a new level without any evidence other than word of mouth. Some of the material in the book is right and sources are credible, but the roids issue is a reach in my opinion. She has a lot of ground to make up in gaining my respect back, and this book does not help.
    Last edited by sylvester; 05-06-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Add Selena Roberts snippet.

  9. #19
    Junior THRILLHOUSE's Avatar
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    yeah Griffey was so lazy he tore his hamstring running hard around 3rd in a spring training game and separated his shoulder diving for a ball. Oh but he didn't sprint to first on routine plays so obviously he was a bum

  10. #20
    Supporting Member GuyFawkes38's Avatar
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    slightly off topic, but I've never been a fan of Marty Brennaman.

    It would be one thing if he was actually a good broacaster. But I really don't think he is. The combo of being both unlikable and bad isn't a good mix.
    "I am at this moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip."

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