Silver Lining in this Mess

I see two very positive things that could play out for us in the midst of the current debacle this team has created.

1. Steele gets the opportunity to make it very clear who the leader of this program is and how we are going to get ourselves back to playing respectable basketball again. If it means benching, escorting out of the program....whatever. Now is the time to make this HIS program.

2. How he handles this and how this team plays the next two months will be a very clear indicator of his capabilities. Great learning lesson for him. Mack and Miller went through similar difficult situations. We will see if Steele has the mettle to be a high level D1 coach.

Honestly, how he handled last year and how the team bought in and finished the season was what I thought at the time- a huge indicator that he was the right guy.

Bringing in a good recruiting class to add to that team that turned things around with a full offseason to build on that momentum and now we look worse is pretty concerning.

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Originally Posted by bleedXblue

I see two very positive things that could play out for us in the midst of the current debacle this team has created.

1. Steele gets the opportunity to make it very clear who the leader of this program is and how we are going to get ourselves back to playing respectable basketball again. If it means benching, escorting out of the program....whatever. Now is the time to make this HIS program.

2. How he handles this and how this team plays the next two months will be a very clear indicator of his capabilities. Great learning lesson for him. Mack and Miller went through similar difficult situations. We will see if Steele has the mettle to be a high level D1 coach.

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I've been saying this for the last few games! It's insanity by definition. They keep doing the same thing that gets them in trouble and seem to be doubling down on that crap.

He's got to make a statement and that begins with PT. F**K this measuring their playing by their practice. Normally I agree with the if you play hard and well in practice you are more likely to do so in-game and you deserve to see the court.

Whatever the thinking is here IT'S NOT WORKING!!!!

Time for a shake-up.

Start KyKy, Freemantle and Agent 4 together, James, even Schrand if that serves the message.

Same-old, same-old is not working.

Even tho he was productive thru his career, Dedrick Finn was escorted out of the program in his senior year.

That was the defining moment when Sean Miller took control of his program from Matta. That ended in a conference tournament championship and an NCAA berth.

I remember pondering ax’s decisions to enter new Big East while in the A10. I thought maybe UC playing in a much inferior league, would appear more often to NCAA tourney because recruiting in AAC and getting superior talent trumps AAC lesser programs. Maybe X would struggle with well advanced teams in a much more talented league. If X has a great team in this new BE, the odds would favor seeding of 1-4 as opposed to having superior teams in A10 and getting a “easier” 6-10 seed.
Choice: get to NCAA every year as an average 7 seed or get invite to NCAA as a 2-6 seed every 3rd year ?
I never thought the Big East would be so far advanced than other leagues .

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Originally Posted by Masterofreality

Even tho he was productive thru his career, Dedrick Finn was escorted out of the program in his senior year.

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I said that in the game thread last night. Every new coach we’ve had booted a starter early in the coach’s tenure. Matta booted Dave Young. Miller booted Finn. Mack didn’t technically boot Lyons, but made it clear who was in charge and where the door is located if he didn’t like it.

Addition by subtraction is a control taking tactic... “If coach will kick off _____, then what would happen with me if I don’t fall in line?” The biggest difference is Steele doesn’t appear to be alpha enough and the obvious candidate for booting (cough Q cough) doesn’t appear to be a sh!thead like those mentioned above. If Steele sets a precedent that sucking leads to getting kicked off, then you’ll have a team full of guys playing scared.

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Originally Posted by xukeith

I remember pondering ax’s decisions to enter new Big East while in the A10. I thought maybe UC playing in a much inferior league, would appear more often to NCAA tourney because recruiting in AAC and getting superior talent trumps AAC lesser programs. Maybe X would struggle with well advanced teams in a much more talented league. If X has a great team in this new BE, the odds would favor seeding of 1-4 as opposed to having superior teams in A10 and getting a “easier” 6-10 seed.
Choice: get to NCAA every year as an average 7 seed or get invite to NCAA as a 2-6 seed every 3rd year ?
I never thought the Big East would be so far advanced than other leagues .

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The problem isn't the Big East. At least not this year.

Xavier had to sweat out Missouri, and Missouri State, and UConn. They lost to Florida who right now isn't looking like a tournament team, and Wake who isn't looking like a CBI team. With the exception of maybe Florida (if they ever get it together), none of those teams probably even finish in the top four of the Atlantic Ten right now. When you barely win three games against teams that wouldn't finish in the top four of the A10, you're assuming a lot by thinking we'd be a tournament team if we were in the A10.

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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded-05

I said that in the game thread last night. Every new coach we’ve had booted a starter early in the coach’s tenure. Matta booted Dave Young. Miller booted Finn. Mack didn’t technically boot Lyons, but made it clear who was in charge and where the door is located if he didn’t like it.

Addition by subtraction is a control taking tactic... “If coach will kick off _____, then what would happen with me if I don’t fall in line?” The biggest difference is Steele doesn’t appear to be alpha enough and the obvious candidate for booting (cough Q cough) doesn’t appear to be a sh!thead like those mentioned above. If Steele sets a precedent that sucking leads to getting kicked off, then you’ll have a team full of guys playing scared.

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Exactly. There is literally no reason to think Q can or should be removed from the team. Allusions to that are insane.

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Originally Posted by AviatorX

Exactly. There is literally no reason to think Q can or should be removed from the team. Allusions to that are insane.

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He shouldn't be sent packing, but you think Nick Saban has any reservations about benching a senior? He benched Jalen Hurts who won a National Chamionship!

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Originally Posted by X Factor

He shouldn't be sent packing, but you think Nick Saban has any reservations about benching a senior? He benched Jalen Hurts who won a National Chamionship!

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Would be a great comparison if Xavier had a top 5 NBA pick just sitting on their bench not playing at all. I'm betting Steele would have benched Goodin for Anthony Edwards.

Trying to get this thread back on a positive as opposed to same discussion and observations I’ve read over the last several weeks.

Freemantle was 2-2 from 3 while keeping the team from being under 20% for the game. Also was 3-4 from the floor, scoring 10 points, and 4 boards in 16 minutes. Love the energy and effort he gives us when he’s on the court.

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Originally Posted by noteggs

Trying to get this thread back on a positive as opposed to same discussion and observations I’ve read over the last several weeks.

Freemantle was 2-2 from 3 while keeping the team from being under 20% for the game. Also was 3-4 from the floor, scoring 10 points, and 4 boards in 16 minutes. Love the energy and effort he gives us when he’s on the court.

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So what I hear you saying is that Freemantle ought to be shooting more and more 3s (along with Scruggs) while playing together on the court with Jones.

Cause if that’s what your saying, I’ve gotta agree.

Each day that goes by means one less day with Steele at the helm.

That’s my positive take.

Does anyone think this impacts Naji or Paul coming back for a 4th year?

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Originally Posted by SemajParlor

Does anyone think this impacts Naji or Paul coming back for a 4th year?

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Not an informed opinion at all, but I think it's purely a business decision for both (i.e. results of this season are nearly irrelevant).

I think you can make a case that Scruggs getting to play PG full time next season could help build his stock. Don't think there's a similar case for Naji to showcase a new part of his game like that.

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Originally Posted by xukeith

I remember pondering ax’s decisions to enter new Big East while in the A10. I thought maybe UC playing in a much inferior league, would appear more often to NCAA tourney because recruiting in AAC and getting superior talent trumps AAC lesser programs. Maybe X would struggle with well advanced teams in a much more talented league. If X has a great team in this new BE, the odds would favor seeding of 1-4 as opposed to having superior teams in A10 and getting a “easier” 6-10 seed.
Choice: get to NCAA every year as an average 7 seed or get invite to NCAA as a 2-6 seed every 3rd year ?
I never thought the Big East would be so far advanced than other leagues .

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As soon as we start debating if it would have been better to stay in A10 is when we know the board is in full meltdown mode.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

As soon as we start debating if it would have been better to stay in A10 is when we know the board is in full meltdown mode.

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100%.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

As soon as we start debating if it would have been better to stay in A10 is when we know the board is in full meltdown mode.

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This team would probably be a less successful version of the Tu Holloway group that got slaughtered by Marquette in the first round.

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Originally Posted by AviatorX

Not an informed opinion at all, but I think it's purely a business decision for both (i.e. results of this season are nearly irrelevant).

I think you can make a case that Scruggs getting to play PG full time next season could help build his stock. Don't think there's a similar case for Naji to showcase a new part of his game like that.

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I'm under the impression that Odom is a Day 1 starter.

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Originally Posted by SM#24

I'm under the impression that Odom is a Day 1 starter.

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He hasn't even set foot on campus or practiced once yet.

You're gonna roll with him over a senior Paul Scruggs? Then I would start to wonder if Steele was trying to get fired.

At PG, to run the offense, distribute, etc., yes, if he's what I'm reading he is. Personally, I'm very much in favor of facilitating PGs vs. scoring PGs.
Of course right now, I'm favor of scoring anything at the moment.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

As soon as we start debating if it would have been better to stay in A10 is when we know the board is in full meltdown mode.

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I'd rep you if the man wasn't keeping me down.

This season may end up being a dumpster fire but I'd take it over being in that conference all day, every day. That's just one of the most nonsensical things I've heard on this board, and there have been a lot of nonsensical things said on this board.

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Originally Posted by SM#24

At PG, to run the offense, distribute, etc., yes, if he's what I'm reading he is. Personally, I'm very much in favor of facilitating PGs vs. scoring PGs.
Of course right now, I'm favor of scoring anything at the moment.

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I think Dwon could be good off the ball in an attacking role, but who knows. I'm just guessing that that's part of the thought process for Scruggs.

Otherwise, as seems to be tradition at Xavier, you've got two old for their class tweeners who probably will never play in the NBA, so all bets are off with what factors into their decision.

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Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z

As soon as we start debating if it would have been better to stay in A10 is when we know the board is in full meltdown mode.

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It's just him. Ignore it. It's worse than MHettel's infamous suggestion that we go independent.

Silver lining?

Some questions asked to some famous coaches in the past, and their answers....

Reporter....”Coach, what’s the best thing about this team?”
Coach.......” The best thing is that I only have to watch them a few more times this season.”

Reporter......”Coach, talk to us about your team’s execution.”
Coach.........”I’m in favor of it.”

That’s Entertainment!

Look, sports is like desert. We all want it, but we can live without it, and we can’t live with just it and nothing more. It’s tastes good, but too much of it can actually make you sick. I know that we all look forward to the season with great anticipation and expectations. We look forward to watching the team play well and have great success. When that doesn’t happen, it’s very disappointing. Very. But that’s no reason to let it effect other parts of ones life or to turn on individuals who aren’t meeting those expectations. My advice is to lower your expectations for the remainder of the season. If there is one thing I have learned from being a Reds and Bengals fan, it’s that them losing doesn’t ruin my life, and them winning didn’t make my life great. I remain optimistic that the Xavier program has a bright future and that this is only a momentary bump in the road. No matter how painful it is right now, and no matter how deep the hole seems to be, Xavier will overcome and will eventually thrive. I truly believe that.

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

Silver lining?

Some questions asked to some famous coaches in the past, and their answers....

Reporter....”Coach, what’s the best thing about this team?”
Coach.......” The best thing is that I only have to watch them a few more times this season.”

Reporter......”Coach, talk to us about your team’s execution.”
Coach.........”I’m in favor of it.”

That’s Entertainment!

Look, sports is like desert. We all want it, but we can live without it, and we can’t live with just it and nothing more. It’s tastes good, but too much of it can actually make you sick. I know that we all look forward to the season with great anticipation and expectations. We look forward to watching the team play well and have great success. When that doesn’t happen, it’s very disappointing. Very. But that’s no reason to let it effect other parts of ones life or to turn on individuals who aren’t meeting those expectations. My advice is to lower your expectations for the remainder of the season. If there is one thing I have learned from being a Reds and Bengals fan, it’s that them losing doesn’t ruin my life, and them winning didn’t make my life great. I remain optimistic that the Xavier program has a bright future and that this is only a momentary bump in the road. No matter how painful it is right now, and no matter how deep the hole seems to be, Xavier will overcome and will eventually thrive. I truly believe that.

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Tampa Bay Buccaneers HC John McKay!

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Originally Posted by 94GRAD

Tampa Bay Buccaneers HC John McKay!

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One of the all time greatest quotes in sports.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by IM4X

So what I hear you saying is that Freemantle ought to be shooting more and more 3s (along with Scruggs) while playing together on the court with Jones.

Cause if that’s what your saying, I’ve gotta agree.

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More shots yes. 3’s? 1-2 is fine if open and disciplined. Not sure what the starting lineup would look like with Zach, but he brings some intangibles I’m not seeing with current team. So yes, starting Zach might be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by xubrew

The problem isn't the Big East. At least not this year.

Xavier had to sweat out Missouri, and Missouri State, and UConn. They lost to Florida who right now isn't looking like a tournament team, and Wake who isn't looking like a CBI team. With the exception of maybe Florida (if they ever get it together), none of those teams probably even finish in the top four of the Atlantic Ten right now. When you barely win three games against teams that wouldn't finish in the top four of the A10, you're assuming a lot by thinking we'd be a tournament team if we were in the A10.

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Missouri won at Temple by 10, beat Illinois on a neutral court and beat Florida, Wake won at a pretty good Pitt team that would be top 2 in the A-10 and Florida would be up there as well. To say those three wouldn’t be in the top 4 of the A10 is kind over the top thinking. The Bonni's lost to Siena, Ohio and Vermont, Duquesne lost to UAB and Marshall and hasn’t beat anyone. Really other than Dayton the conference has played shit schedules and really has beat no one of significance. Dayton is the only team in the A-10 that would have a .500 or better record in the Big East.

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Originally Posted by xavierj

Missouri won at Temple by 10, beat Illinois on a neutral court and beat Florida, Wake won at a pretty good Pitt team that would be top 2 in the A-10 and Florida would be up there as well. To say those three wouldn’t be in the top 4 of the A10 is kind over the top thinking. The Bonni's lost to Siena, Ohio and Vermont, Duquesne lost to UAB and Marshall and hasn’t beat anyone. Really other than Dayton the conference has played shit schedules and really has beat no one of significance. Dayton is the only team in the A-10 that would have a .500 or better record in the Big East.

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I'm a missouri fan but they freaking suck, they just lost by 30 to miss state who is also garbage, and they have lost to charleston southern, wake is effing terrible.

Let's not be like uc fans used to be when we were in the a10.

Just a quick glance Rhode island beat providence and alabama, Richmond beat wisconsin, vcu beat lsu.

Let's stop knocking a league that xavier would be struggling in this year.

Btw we arent comparing the a10 to the be straight up, the be is really good, but Xavier is effing terrible right now no matter what league they're in this year. I'd hate to think what dayton would do to xavier this year..not kidding when I think they'd beat x by thirty if they played tonight

According to Jeff Sagarin, Missouri would be the 5th best team in the A-10. Wake would be #8. That "pretty good" Pitt team would also slot in as the #5 team in the A-10.

Jeff still has Xavier #2 in the A-10, but only by a hair over VCU. A-10 is definitely staring down Juan Bid this year, though. Imagine how depressing it would be to come in second in the conference and not make the NCAA Tournament!

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

Silver lining?

Some questions asked to some famous coaches in the past, and their answers....

Reporter....”Coach, what’s the best thing about this team?”
Coach.......” The best thing is that I only have to watch them a few more times this season.”

Reporter......”Coach, talk to us about your team’s execution.”
Coach.........”I’m in favor of it.”

That’s Entertainment!

Look, sports is like desert. We all want it, but we can live without it, and we can’t live with just it and nothing more. It’s tastes good, but too much of it can actually make you sick. I know that we all look forward to the season with great anticipation and expectations. We look forward to watching the team play well and have great success. When that doesn’t happen, it’s very disappointing. Very. But that’s no reason to let it effect other parts of ones life or to turn on individuals who aren’t meeting those expectations. My advice is to lower your expectations for the remainder of the season. If there is one thing I have learned from being a Reds and Bengals fan, it’s that them losing doesn’t ruin my life, and them winning didn’t make my life great. I remain optimistic that the Xavier program has a bright future and that this is only a momentary bump in the road. No matter how painful it is right now, and no matter how deep the hole seems to be, Xavier will overcome and will eventually thrive. I truly believe that.

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Great post.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

According to Jeff Sagarin, Missouri would be the 5th best team in the A-10. Wake would be #8. That "pretty good" Pitt team would also slot in as the #5 team in the A-10.

Jeff still has Xavier #2 in the A-10, but only by a hair over VCU. A-10 is definitely staring down Juan Bid this year, though. Imagine how depressing it would be to come in second in the conference and not make the NCAA Tournament!

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This is where formulas and algorithms are stupid...xavier lost to the 8th best team in the a10, got lucky to beat the 5th best, but yet would finish 2nd in his stupid formula.

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Originally Posted by Xville

This is where formulas and algorithms are stupid...xavier lost to the 8th best team in the a10, got lucky to beat the 5th best, but yet would finish 2nd in his stupid formula.

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Don’t you mean ACC and not a10? Xavier hasn’t played any a10 teams that I’m aware of. :embarassed:

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Originally Posted by XUGRAD80

Don’t you mean ACC and not a10? Xavier hasn’t played any a10 teams that I’m aware of. :embarassed:

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I was replying to go muskies post in which sagarian says wake would be 8th in the a10 and missouri 5th. Xavier is lucky to be 1-1 against those teams yet would be 2nd in the a10.

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Originally Posted by Xville

This is where formulas and algorithms are stupid...xavier lost to the 8th best team in the a10, got lucky to beat the 5th best, but yet would finish 2nd in his stupid formula.

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I'd love to see you come up with a formula that would accurately predict 100% of games. LOL I mean, Evansville beat UK in Rupp, so surely Kentucky shouldn't be ahead of Evansville, right?

Sagarin is the best in the business.

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Originally Posted by Xville

This is where formulas and algorithms are stupid...xavier lost to the 8th best team in the a10, got lucky to beat the 5th best, but yet would finish 2nd in his stupid formula.

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It's because formulas and algorithms are based and your full body of work not just 1-2 games. UK lost to the last place team in the MVC but would finish first in the MVC in his formula.

EDIT: and GoMuskies and I had the same idea.

Also, teams are pretty bunched up at that point. Sagarin calculates the difference between Mizzou and Xavier as approximately 2.25 points. On the other hand, Dayton is 7.5 points better than Xavier.

KenPom would rank us third in the A-10 and Mizzou fourth. Wake would be 9th.

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Originally Posted by GoMuskies

I'd love to see you come up with a formula that would accurately predict 100% of games. LOL I mean, Evansville beat UK in Rupp, so surely Kentucky shouldn't be ahead of Evansville, right?

Sagarin is the best in the business.

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That's great but if you actually believe xavier would finish 2nd in the a10 based on what we have seen so far I have some great oceanfront property in louisville to sell ya