It's probably true. Having said that, it's probably not the result of a hospital trying to inflate their numbers, but rather a result of the hospital being disorganized during a very different and chaotic time.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
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It's probably true. Having said that, it's probably not the result of a hospital trying to inflate their numbers, but rather a result of the hospital being disorganized during a very different and chaotic time.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
Moron La. Senator Kennedy said yesterday he has learned the virus is "very contagious". This is what we have to deal with after 8 months when the president said exactly the same thing. Time warp.
Bobbie - will moron sheeple like you comply: California governor’s office orders diners to wear masks ‘in between bites’Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
https://gellerreport.com/2020/10/cal...en-bites.html/
People like you have given me clarity on how German citizens were able to commit atrocities against humanity.
You sound like you're talking about Benito Trumpelini after his huff/puff on the balcony.
Of course you'll comply! You're a good little Democrat sheeple. You'll do exactly as your told, and you'll think exactly what your told to think. There will be no dissent among any Democrats, only conformity.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
On a scale of 1-10 how upset were you when facebook shut down all of your favorite QAnnon groups?Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
Ahh, another Democrat sheeple! Note the lack of pushback from STL on Gavin Newsome's absolutely ridiculous order....Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
And I'm quite sure Bobbie, STL and Paul have never questioned transgender men competing in woman's sports, who take away scholarships from high school girls. I'm also quite sure their very comfortable with Democrats saturating black neighborhoods with abortion clinics. And of course I bet you all are perfectly fine with the Democrats giving illegal aliens free healthcare, or allowing Democrat terrorists to destroy our cities, right? You'll just allow the media to gaslight us, and tell us that these are perfectly peaceful protestors.
Who the hell is QAnon? A conspiracy theory about a Conspiracy theory. Haven't seen any "Q" burn down buildings and torch businesses and police stations.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Now tell me about the "Idea" that IS Antifa.
https://twitter.com/andyslater/statu...915106304?s=21
Not that they would get to 65k, but this certainly is something.Quote:
Miami Dolphins have been given clearance to go to full capacity of 65,000 fans at Hard Rock Stadium, Gov. DeSantis’ spokesperson tells me. The team, though, says their current plan of 13,000 fans remains the same for their next home game on Oct. 25.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/tech/...ntl/index.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-cont...-extremism.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
It is a group that has been labeled a domestic terrorism threat by the FBI due to its members committing and attempting to commit violent actions. I assumed you would be up to date on this group since your main policy is making sure America is safe from domestic terrorism. Or do you only care about domestic terrorism that fits you agenda.
And yes, I condemn anyone that commit violent actions.
Give me a f***ing break. Get out from under the rock and see the world outside the Foxland bubble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
Science! SCIENCE!!!
Over 6000 Scientists, Doctors Sign Anti-lockdown Petition: https://summit.news/2020/10/07/over-...down-petition/
Also, note that the libs on this board have failed to denounce the absolutely insane positions their party has taken. Instead, they try to deflect with irrelevant conspiracies that no one gives a rats ass about....
Here's a non-conspiracy fact:
More people tested positive for the virus last week from non-socially distancing at the White House (including the President who had to be medically treated) than the entire country of Taiwan...which still only has 7 deaths vs. 200,000+.
The big difference? They wear masks.
So, this is advocating herd immunity. Which might make sense if you knew that this particular virus, and catching it, does not represent having long term negative medical consequences. I don't think we know that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU_Lou
I guess the fact that it's an island nation has nothing to do with their numbers??Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Nice how you conveniently overlook Sweden....
Ask a doctor not on a government payroll and they will tell you masks don't work - I'll refer you once again to post #3010
Sure they're an island nation. As soon as they knew about the virus, they quarantined everyone who came in from China.
They managed the virus situation. They wore masks. I think it helped.
I didn't "overlook" Sweden. What should I look for?
Sweden has had 57 deaths/100,000
The US has had 64 deaths/100,000
Taiwan has had 0.03 deaths/100,000
What am I missing?
A couple take home points:Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
1. There is no way you can compare the USA to Tawain, New Zealand, South Korea or any other similar nation with the ability to easily lock down transit in/out of the country and/or implement totalitarian type regulations.
2. Masks do work. I don't know a single physician colleague who claims otherwise. Certain types of mask work better than others (Astym 3 vs. N95 vs. KN-95 vs. P100 vs. others) at reducing the risk of transmission by varying degrees. Knowing how to wear a mask helps, obviously. I don't understand those who refuse to wear a mask. It certainly makes me feel uncomfortable when I see or if I am an area when appropriate social distancing and mask wearing is being ignored.
3. Covid seems evolving/changing as a disease. It seems to be equally/maybe more contagious as when it first presented. It does not seem to be as deadly as when it first hit NYC. More cases, but less morbidity and mortality. This may be due to better management and treatment options. It could also be because more contagious, but less virulent strains are now becoming more common. I think this trend will continue as the vaccine becomes available, more treatments become available (such as the Regeneron Antibody cocktail), and as we develop some humoral/innate immunity.
I see a light at the end of the tunnel and think we are hopefully going to be on the back end of this Pandemic in the New Year.
I wonder if trump will write us a check for his treatment. He doesn't pay any taxes so I think it would only be the right thing to do so. After all, he got the best treatment on earth unavailable to the rest of us.
How about a comparison that is very similar in geography and population:Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
https://twitter.com/boriquagato/stat...850049031?s=20
Muskie - you're probably going to have to be banned from this board for blowing Paul's mind.... Facts simply should not be allowed in a debate on this subject this sensitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
This idea may not be well received by some.Quote:
Originally Posted by kmcrawfo
(my comparison to Taiwan was not regarding their government, location, etc. It was for the value of wearing masks.)
Like trump? He's out on the lawn with no mask spewing disease on the film crew.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Kid: "Mommy why do I have to wear a mask when the president never does"?
Mom: "Because he's an idiot."
Well okay, Herr Goebbels...Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
From those wacky people at the New England Journal of Medicine:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812Quote:
When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.
Yeah, I remember when that journal used to be reputable.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2021693
First Scientific American now NEJM? Some see this as good for Biden and bad for Trump, but it concerns me greatly being in the medical industry and extremely bad for science/medicine to be endorsing candidates. Period.
Guess it shouldn’t surprise me too much because we have been politicizing science over 40 years with climate change and part of the rationale SA endorsed Biden.
Side note- Kind of makes me wonder why NEJM rushed through the bogus study on HCQ. Hmm...seems rather political now and it pains me to think that way.
NEJM has been in business for over 200 years.
I'll leave it KmCrw to weigh in on its merits. I believe from my brother (doctor) that it is a well respected publication.
This is only the 4th letter in its history that all editors have signed, and the first to comment on a political situation.
Perhaps they're concerned.
NEJM is an excellent source of information and normally well respected by all in the healthcare industry not just doctors. I would like to hear what Dr Crawford has to say because I enjoy reading his takes, but you do realize others have the capacity to analyze and interpret the data? Lloyd on this board comes to mind. At work, I’ve highlighted a lot of my conversations around their publications and findings, but that’s not the issue at all here!
Concerned or not, this is not role of any scientific organization to endorse a political candidate. Honestly, I would say the same thing if they (scientific group) endorsed a Republican candidate because of implications of abortion.
Bottom line we don’t want medical decisions to made by politicians because they (medical and scientific groups) prefer one candidate over another. Unfortunately with this new precedent, that seems to be way we are going. Sad.
Since it's apparently the first time in 200 years, I assume they are really concerned.
When the sitting president continues to botch his response to a global pandemic by ignoring science for 6+ months, and he’s up for re-election, a new precedent is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by noteggs
Can you provide your condensed version of what this says. I can read the report, I just want to hear your version directly from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by waggy
Masks are resulting in more cases than if they weren't used at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
If that is what you came away with from this report, I strongly suggest that you brush up on your reading comprehension skills. There is nothing in this report remotely suggesting what you state are its conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by waggy
Curious to hear what you think could have been done better or more effectively without massive shutdowns of the entire country which would have had devastating effects both economically and socially.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowDownDBrown
This guy was the former head of the CDC under Carter and Reagan, and organized the national and global response to eradicate smallpox.
He had some ides like you are seeking in the letter he wrote to the current head of the CDC. Perhaps they are instructive:
Letter: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ge-Letter.html
Article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/5899724002/
All you need to do is look at the two picture charts. A child could do it. And there are more out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by X-man
Final conclusion:Wash your hands ———- If you are sick, stay home!
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
As usual, this is a complete nothingburger, published as a hit piece. This is pure Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
Paul, please show us what Joe Biden would do - with specific plans that differ from what the Trump Admin was doing at the time - and only use contemporaneous sources where Joe or the Democrats explained their plan to handle the problem. No after the fact, "Monday Morning Quarterbacking".
Here's what I remember (warning: this ain't pretty):
Part 1:
1/9: CDC and FDA begin collaborating on a diagnostic test for the novel coronavirus.
1/21: CDC’s Dr. Nancy Messonier “announced that a few days earlier the CDC had ‘finalized development’ of its test and used it to confirm the first coronavirus infection in the US
1/24: Politico reports that the Trump administration held a briefing on the coronavirus for senators, but it was “sparsely attended” in part because it “was held on the same day as a deadline for senators to submit their impeachment questions.” “The initial thought from the Dems, I think, is that we were trying to distract from impeachment,” a GOP Senate aide told Politico. The outlet added that a White House official “recalled feeling surprised at the ‘incredibly’ poor attendance, noting that it came ‘even though the amount of concern expressed then was rather intense.’”
1/27: The Biden campaign, including its top coronavirus adviser Ron Klain, praise China for being “transparent” and “candid.” Speaking to Axios, Klain asserts: “I think what you’d have to say about China is, it’s been more transparent and more candid than it has been during past outbreaks, though still there’s problems with transparency and candor.” Even as he says there were “many” areas in which China hasn’t been transparent, Klain asserts that China had helpfully released a “sequence of the virus.” Klain goes on to say there isn’t “any reason” for anyone to postpone essential travel to anywhere except the Wuhan area. In fact, China reportedly destroyed virus samples rather than release them.
1/29: Trump announces Coronavirus Task Force
1/29: Zeke Emanuel, later added to Biden Task Force “I do think we need to put this somewhat into context. Which is… its likely to spread… it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. And we know that there will be people that unfortunately die from this. But, is this likely to break out into some major pandemic around the world? Unlikely. We’re likely to be able to contain it. Obviously it would have been better if we had done some containment earlier on and the Chinese had been a little more open earlier on. But these kinds of things are often hard to figure out about what the right measure is, especially when you don’t know how severe it’s going to be right at the start. But I would put in context we have tens of thousands of people in the United States who die every year from the flu…. Whatever this Coronavirus is, its very, very, very unlikely to be that severe. And yet our response, because its new and novel, tends to be much more histrionic I think than it is… We live with the flu, it’s just the flu but it also kills a lot of people. It may not kill at the same high rate but it does kill tens of thousands of Americans and your chance of getting it from colleagues is low.”
1/31: Trump orders China Travel Ban
1/31: Speaker Nancy Pelosi issues a statement about the Travel Ban: “The Trump Administration’s expansion of its outrageous, un-American travel ban threatens our security, our values and the rule of law. The sweeping rule, barring more than 350 million individuals from predominantly African nations from traveling to the United States, is discrimination disguised as policy.
1/31: Former Vice President Joe Biden calls Trump’s travel ban “hysterical xenophobia” and “fear-mongering.”
1/31: CDC issues Federal quarantine for 14 days affecting 195 American evacuees from Wuhan, China.
Part 2:
2/2: Democrat New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot tweets: “As we gear up to celebrate the #LunarNewYear in NYC, I want to assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or certain parts of the city because of #coronavirus.”
2/3: The CDC had a team ready to travel to China to obtain critical information on the novel coronavirus, but were in the U.S. awaiting permission to enter by the Chinese government.
2/5: The Senate acquits Trump on two counts of impeachment, in a widely expected result that dominated journalists’ and politicians’ attention for months.
2/5: The Trump Administration and health officials briefed lawmakers on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response efforts.
2/5: Senator Schumer: “The premature travel ban to and from China by the current administration is just an excuse to further his ongoing war against immigrants. There must be a check and Balance on those restrictions.”
2/7: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announces that the United States has donated nearly 18 tons of medical supplies to China. [in hindsight, this may have been a mistake]
2/7: Democrat New York City Health Commissioner Oxiris Barbot strikes again, assuring residents, “We’re telling New Yorkers, go about your lives, take the subway, go out, enjoy life.”
2/7: During the DNC debate: “Bernie Sanders and Amy Klobuchar mentioned China, but only in the context of climate change. Pete Buttigieg said: “The next president is going to face challenges from global health security, like what we’re seeing coming out of China,” but he didn’t frame this as an immediate danger.”
2/9: Mark Levine, the chair of New York City Council health committee and a Democrat, tweets: “In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC’s Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of ‘be strong Wuhan!’ If you are staying away, you are missing out!”
2/11: Klain, the Biden adviser, remarks that the evidence “suggests” the coronavirus won’t be a “serious pandemic.”
2/12: The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.
2/13: Joe Biden appears on The View. He does not mention Covid 19.
2/13: “There are ZERO confirmed cases of coronavirus in New York City, and hundreds of Chinese restaurants that need your business!” the New York City mayor’s office tweets. “There is nothing to fear. Stop by any Chinatown for lunch or dinner!” New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio adds: “It was my honor to spend time with our Asian-American owned small businesses in Flushing today. This vibrant community is standing strong but they need YOUR support. Our Chinatowns are open for business — make some dinner plans, do some shopping and stand with our neighbors!”
2/13: Biden advisor Klain praises de Blasio: “We don’t have a #COVIDー19 epidemic in the US but we are starting to see a fear epidemic. Kudos to @NYCMayor (and others) for standing against that.”
2/14: Azar told CNN that he and CDC director Redfield officially offered to send a CDC team into China on Jan. 6 but still had not received permission for them to enter the country. HHS oversees the CDC. “Dr. Redfield and I made the offer on January 6th – 36 days ago, 60,000 cases and 1,300 deaths ago,” Azar said. “We made the offer to send the CDC experts in to assist their Chinese colleagues to get to the bottom of key scientific questions like, how transmissible is this disease? What is the severity? What is the incubation period and can there be asymptomatic transmission?”
2/17: Fauci announces that the risk of coronavirus infection in the U.S. is “miniscule,” according to USA Today. Fauci, one of the top experts in the field and a senior White House coronavirus adviser, also told the paper that people shouldn’t wear masks unless they are contagious.
2/19: Dr. Lisa Monaco, later added to the Biden Task Force, compares the virus to the common flu. “I do think that kind of perspective is very important. Governor Cuomo recently said the common flu remains a far greater threat to New Yorkers so it’s important to keep that in perspective.”