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Sweden has twice the population of their nordic neighbors Finland and norway and has a much denser (if that's a word) pop. Comparing them just because they are next to each other is quite silly. I'll grant you Denmark's pop density is much higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
I don't think it's silly. From the standpoint of climate and relative density I think it makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
Here are the densities of the countries noted in the first and second article comparisons:
Population per square mile:
Belgium 973
United Kingdom 725
Italy 518
Denmark 349
Sweden 59
Norway 43
Finland 42
By it's size, Denmark is a lot more like its neighbors to the south and west.
But comparing Sweden to Great Britain, rather than Norway and Finland seems to be to just make a point.
I don't think Sweden is a lot denser than its neighbors Norway and Finland. But its density is 8% of Great Britain's.
It's true Sweden has twice the population of each of it's neighbors.
But if you take Finland, Denmark and Norway together, they are 16.6 million...with 1200 deaths.
Sweden, with 10 million people....5300 deaths.
That just doesn't make sense as a good argument that Sweden did better.
Edit: often density can be skewed by how much land a country has. US density is 87 per square mile, but Manhattan is really dense. And real dense areas are subject apparently to rapid spread of the virus. We have a low national density, but are leading the world in deaths.
On the other side of the coin, we have no idea how the rest of the world is really reporting deaths nor do we know if the US is accurate. I mean you can break a leg, die from a blood clot, have Covid and be classified a Covid death.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
So do you believe the death count to be less than 160k as it currently stands?Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierj
I believe the difference in 5300 and 1200 wouldn't have justified shutting down a country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Sweden has 10 million people and 5300 deaths. 1 death for every 1886 people.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdiggins
We have 330 million people. That would translate to 175,000 deaths for us. We are well on our way.
The other countries with 16.6 million and 1200 deaths have 1 death for every 13,833.
If the US tracked to that number, we'd be at 23,800 deaths, not 150,000+.
I'm not sure exactly what we might have done, but there seems like room for improvement. I think a nationally coordinated plan, with contract tracing and isolation would have helped.
I thought we were comparing Sweden with it's neighbors. My point was I don't know the people of Sweden, but I'd guess they wouldn't trade off those 4,000 for having completely shut down and crippled their country. Especially since 3900 of them were over the age of 80. 5100 over the age of 70. For those keeping score at home, Sweden has had 2.5x as many people over the age of 90 die from Covid (and let's be honest with a life expectancy of 82 they were about to die anyway) as they have had die under the age of 70 die from Covid.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Who knows how accurate the death count in the US actually is though.
Report: CDC director admits hospitals have monetary ‘incentive’ to inflate coronavirus death count
https://www.thebritishjournal.com/wo...ews-4771-2020/
I will ask you the same question I asked xavierj (no response yet): Do you believe the death count to be less than 160k as it currently stands?Quote:
Originally Posted by X Factor
Wasn't George Floyd's death captured in Covid death figures too? If so, then yes. Not accurate counts.
https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/...-covid-deaths/Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Quote:
Actual deaths due to COVID are some 54% or 63% lower than implied by the standard excess deaths measure, and reported excess deaths likely include a significant number of non-COVID deaths.
Sorry I don’t live on this site. But yes I think true Covid deaths is much lower. People are dying of cancer, pneumonia, and heart disease that are getting counted as Covid. I was talking to a coworker whose aunt died of a heart attack and they marked it as Covid since she did also test positive for that. Look I know Covid can kill and it affects people drastically different. Some people get sick, some no at all and I know someone who came out of it with no symptoms but now is having crazy psychosis. This thing is defiantly weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
We don’t measure deaths this way, as this is a way to try and estimate the full impact of COVID. That is a very difficult thing to capture and I don’t think it would be accurate to do it this way here either. It is strange though this study was done by an economist. Here is the full textQuote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierj
Did you see the death certificate of your coworkers aunt? We have evidence COVID causes myocardial damage so I wouldn’t necessarily say it definitely wasn’t a factor without knowing the details of her health. Due to false negatives in testing I feel early on we drastically underestimated death counts, and with increased testing capacity and antibody testing capability it is less likely to miss a COVID death as it was early on. The fact that you and others believe the death count to be lower than reported is indicative of backlash to media hype of this disease going too far.
Dewine has Covid.
Is Xavier meeting in person for fall semester?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Ironically he was tested bc he was meeting with Trump, who has been critical about increased testing as it drives the number of reported cases up. Yet obviously anyone who comes in contact with the President gets a test, which I believe to be the right policy, though contradictory to what comes out of his mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by xuphan
Test, test, test.
https://blog.plan99.net/pseudo-epidemics-7603b2da839
Apparently DeWine had the antigen test... and has since tested negative with PCR testing.
https://twitter.com/govmikedewine/st...772798977?s=21
That's a sneaky way to get out of a fundraiser.
Now he's negative. Do you think we can get f'ing tests to work correctly?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Well, based on the types of tests used there aren’t a whole lot of false positives, but there are a lot of false negatives. I would err to the side that the PCR test is a false negative more than the antigen test is a false positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
This is a clown show!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
How does anyone take the serious anymore?
Without any questions a total f**ing clown show.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENWAR
You either have it or you don't?
Joseph Heller would approve:
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/2...pen-classroomsQuote:
“I don’t think any of us are in a position to balk the governor,” one director said.
As Gov. Ron DeSantis pushed this summer for schools to reopen, state leaders told school boards they would need Health Department approval if they wanted to keep classrooms closed.
Then they instructed health directors not to give it.
How do we know he’s negative? He’s had one positive and one negative. Supposedly the false negative is more prominent than a false positive. So odds are still that he’s positive. Do we go best 2 of 3? Maybe we need a 5 or 7 game series? Are we finally realizing the fact that the PCR tests are garbage?Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbiemcgee
Clown show is right.
It makes no sense to do a PCR test after he tested positive by antigen. It’s almost like they knew there was a good chance it would be negative so they could get a presser out that he’s now negative. I would bet he’s getting antibody tested as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
An argument for a 6 week lock down to get to a level where full scale contact tracing is possible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/o...ent-death.html
Careful with the L word ‘round here...Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Golden opportunity missed with the first lockdown but there are too many that didn’t believe this to be a serious issue. Still possibly the case just by reading through this thread.
Yes, there are a lot of people who do not see COVID as an issue. A lot of people here in the rural south believe that it is just the flu and any attempts by the government to address COVID is seen as a way for the government to control you. Amazing how many people believe this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
15 days to lockdown and now we are on month 4 of either shut down or restricted aspects of society. Schools may not open, businesses cannot open, masks must be worn, mask snitch hotlines, and the list goes on of mandated government orders that were not passed with any legislation but simply by governor decree.Quote:
Originally Posted by xuphan
You may think that this is all necessary, and that’s fine, but call it what it is, it’s government control.
What do you expect when you have two political parties both saying different things? Biggest issue with this country are the political parties putting the parties interests ahead of the country’s best interests. Get rid of political parties, gerrymandering, and make term limits for Congress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
Why do we not hear about this like we used to? It seems that was a hot topic (relatively) in the past but has died away. Am I imagining that? Our system is broken with all these career politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by xuphan
Senator Ted Cruz introduced a constitutional amendment last year for term limits for both the House and the Senate. Of course, it went nowhere.
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Totally agree. What good is it having the same politicians in office for 30+ years who are in bed with their political parties and can’t compromise on anything. I also think they should earn the average salary of all of the people they serve. They make way to much money.Quote:
Originally Posted by xu82
So can I safely say you won't be voting for Biden?Quote:
Originally Posted by xuphan
Take a hit on your joint and IMAGINE....Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Now me bring you back to reality. For this to work:
- we need reliable tests for contact tracing
- we to have distinguishable symptoms to know when to contact trace
- we need to have a plan for enforcing a lockdown
- we need to have a means of supporting people who can't economically sustain such a lockdown
- we need to believe that citizens of a country founded on freedom are willing to accept government directing every movement of their lives
- we need to pretend that even if the above were true, a lockdown actually works.
Nope, nope, nothing, no way, yeah... right, and WRONG.
Also the article is wrong. No country in the world has had more than very short term success with a lockdown. Virus gonna do what the virus gonna do. This is about management, not prevention. The sooner we realize that, the better off everyone is going to be.
There are countries that have had success with a lockdown, like New Zealand. While agreeing it might not be possible because of our refusal to act together for the common good, this idea is what you describe...management. If you lockdown as they suggest, you reduce cases to a level you can test, trace, and treat new cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Totally incomparable. New Zealand is an island. If you want to recreate that that in America you would have to “act in the common good” by sealing off the borders. Are you advocating to build a wall?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Management as I suggest is protecting the vulnerable (and just those who want to be protected) by isolating them safely, while letting those who have more risk than COVID by driving to 20 minutes, live their lives.
PS I would also say NZ is lucky. Look at their island neighbor to the west. You have to appreciate that we are powerless against COVID-19. Virus gonna do what the virus gonna do. I predict that NZ will have an outbreak before this is over.