Covid-19

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

When making a recommendation or prescribing a medication the prescriber weights risk and benefit. In the case of Ivermectin, it has not been shown to be beneficial at the doses humans can tolerate, so the benefit and risk are not that far apart. There are other treatments that have been shown to be beneficial in high risk individuals that are available so we go with those. In the case of vaccines, the benefit far outweighs the risk as the number of people that have died from side effects is extremely low. There’s clear benefit since the vaccine was studied in clinical trials we have actual data. I’m not opposed to an ivermectin study being done but the effective in vitro dose is toxic in humans which makes for a tough starting point. There would be plenty of volunteers though for the study as a lot of people ask about it.

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Interesting and fair however several counties are using ivermectin to effectively treat COVID not as a preventative measure. Would you be be opposed to treating a patient with it if they requested? I’m not sure folks are arguing to use it in place of the vaccine.

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Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Interesting and fair however several counties are using ivermectin to effectively treat COVID not as a preventative measure. Would you be be opposed to treating a patient with it if they requested? I’m not sure folks are arguing to use it in place of the vaccine.

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Yes I would be opposed to it because we have antibody treatment which reduces hospitalization by over 80% when given in the first 5-7 days of treatment. Proven evidence based treatment should always be the best option.

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Originally Posted by Xville

Vaccine mandate wasn’t what was in question. The question you posed that started this up again was why should I or someone who is vaxxed care what unvaxxed people do. That question has been answered on here pretty definitively numerous times. Comparing it to smokers, diabetes because of eating choices etc holds zero water and has been answered as to why several times.

It’s not a cop out when someone who knows a hell of a lot more on the subject than me and (I’m sorry you don’t believe this) and YOU, answers the question pretty definitively. you still choose to ignore it even though it’s been answered on this thread numerous times which I guess is your prerogative

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No, it is about vaccine mandates. The question is, "is the social benefit of government vaccine mandates worth the cost of the government taking away medical autonomy." And you are wrong, it is JUST like smoking, obesity, etc... exactly as Lloyd explained.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

Sorry to report that pooled meta-analyses are not substantial enough to warrant clinical use. The amount of damage it has done (including people trusting that it works so much to decline antibody treatments) outweighs any small benefit it might have had.

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So, what you are saying is that according to the school of western medicine, a proven safe drug cannot be repurposed in practice - even if all indications are that it provides some effectiveness - unless demonstrated effective through clinical research trials?

How do you reconcile that with the vaccines? Shouldn't this very safe, Nobel-prize winning drug which has been shown effective in pooled meta-analyses be given an EUA for this pandemic? Is it possible that drug companies are developing their own patentable therapeutics? Then is it possible that these drug companies would have a lot to lose by such a repurposed, inexpensive drug becoming widely used? And don't these drug companies have a very powerful lobby?

If you consider this a conspiracy theory, you are simply not paying attention.

On a separate by highly related note, this is hot off the press: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ctive_citywide

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

Yes I would be opposed to it because we have antibody treatment which reduces hospitalization by over 80% when given in the first 5-7 days of treatment. Proven evidence based treatment should always be the best option.

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I’m sure that works just as well. Guess it depends on which Pharma rep comes to the office…

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

you are simply not paying attention.

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That's not the only option.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

No, it is about vaccine mandates. The question is, "is the social benefit of government vaccine mandates worth the cost of the government taking away medical autonomy." And you are wrong, it is JUST like smoking, obesity, etc... exactly as Lloyd explained.

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I went back and looked to see if I was crazy or if my memory failed me but my inclination was correct in that you never asked that question. The question was why should we (vaccinated) care what the unvaccinated do? That was the question. If you want to now move the goalposts, then fine. However, I don’t really find it beneficial to discuss something with someone who thinks they know more than a medical professional based on what they find on the internet on this subject, so I’ll bow out.

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

So, what you are saying is that according to the school of western medicine, a proven safe drug cannot be repurposed in practice - even if all indications are that it provides some effectiveness - unless demonstrated effective through clinical research trials?

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You are begging the question there. All indications do not provide that it is effective.

How deep does your conspiracy theory go? Do you really think individual health care providers, who are on the front lines dealing with this shit on a constant basis, are passing up a silver bullet that could save their patient life cause they would like to help out the CEO of a drug company? And that they all got together across thousands of health care system to come to this agreement?

I will concede that there are lots of reforms that need to be done with the marketing of drugs, funding of research, and manipulation by drug companies, but this conspiracy theory just makes 0 sense if you think about it for more than 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by waggy

That's not the only option.

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Exactly... The libs on this board and in the media, and the elites who control this country have so demonized Ivermectin and other therapeutics that they can't - at this point - admit they were wrong. As a result, they refuse to educate themselves.

Is it all Trump's fault for identifying these therapeutics, or is it all financial??

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Originally Posted by XU_Lou

Exactly... The crazy extremists on this board and on the internet, and the crazies who want to control this country have so demonized The vaccine and other therapeutics that they can't - at this point - admit they were wrong. As a result, they refuse to believe real medical professionals and instead pretend to educate themselves by googling things they agree with on the internet.

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Fixed