Politics Thread

I think when we look back on this time the hydroxychloroquine debate will be one of the sillier things to ever enter the public debate. The fact that any lay person has an opinion they feel need to defend on this subject is just bizarre (and I am not saying that as someone who hasn't had arguments over it, I fully admit that I have been infected by the 2020 silliness).

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Originally Posted by XU 87

Well, I 'm glad you have made the decision that the rest of us should not be permitted to listen to her or any of the other doctors (there were at least five) on that video discussing their opinions on covid solely because you disagree with them.

Your post confirms what I said- you don't agree with what these doctors say. Therefore, the rest of us shouldn't be permitted to hear what they have to say. The left will not tolerate permitting people to form their own opinions which may differ from theirs.

I again ask you- why is the left so intolerant? Why do you have shut down those you disagree with?

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I made no judgments on HCQ. I did make a judgment on the President retweeting medical opinions from a widely discredited Doctor who has some opinions that I'm surprised didn't cost her her medical license. If he had done any thinking at all prior to tweeting that, he would have gone with a source that didn't involve that particular Doctor. I think the President should think before he speaks, particularly when so many of you guys believe everything he says.

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

I was actually relatively impressed by Trump for a week or so. He stayed on message for the most part and seemed to actually manage to show a bit of humility and empathy (a very small bit, but still) at times. He finally told people to wear masks and actually set an example. Then the rails seem to have come off again and we are back to where we started from.

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

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Notice how Boozehound continues to ignore the data I provided that goes against his ignorant POV....

I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

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Originally Posted by XU 87

I'm a lawyer. I don't know if HCQ is effective. What I do know is that at least five doctors were silenced because their views on covid were contrary to the left wing's views. What I also know is that the left applauded that decision to silence them, and two of our liberal posters on this board also applauded that decision. And I find all of this very, very disturbing.

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For a drug that is effective in treating people for other serious diseases and has been in use for decades. It's not like people are advocating for essential oils as a treatment for cancer or something. It's real medicine backed by real doctors with some examples of success so far. Dismissing it completely doesn't seem like a wise move for "the party of science."

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Originally Posted by boozehound

I made no judgments on HCQ. I did make a judgment on the President retweeting medical opinions from a widely discredited Doctor who has some opinions that I'm surprised didn't cost her her medical license. If he had done any thinking at all prior to tweeting that, he would have gone with a source that didn't involve that particular Doctor. I think the President should think before he speaks, particularly when so many of you guys believe everything he says.

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

I was actually relatively impressed by Trump for a week or so. He stayed on message for the most part and seemed to actually manage to show a bit of humility and empathy (a very small bit, but still) at times. He finally told people to wear masks and actually set an example. Then the rails seem to have come off again and we are back to where we started from.

Regarding the treatment itself. It seems that the body of evidence is that HCQ doesn't do much to help, and might even hurt. I don't know why we are even still talking about it as a country. It really only comes up when Trump chooses to tweet about it. I also don't really have a problem with people taking it (assuming it's a choice they are making). From what I understand most Doctors have stopped using it as part of protocol to treat COVID in light of new studies and evidence.

This is just another phase of the dumbing down of our society. For decades Medicine has relied on a process of rigorous, peer reviewed, studies to determine the effectiveness of drugs and treatments, as well as the possible side effects. That process is increasingly suggesting that HCQ is not an effective treatment, but a great many people are choosing to ignore that. That is some Medieval / Dark Ages type of shit. If we are just going to ignore science, why not try leeches?

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Who believes everything he says?

Biden says virtually nothing and when he does it isn't coherent.

HCQ has been used for decades? Why again does it need to go through rigorous testing and studies? We need treatments now!! Even if they marginally help patients.

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Originally Posted by Juice

For a drug that is effective in treating people for other serious diseases and has been in use for decades. It's not like people are advocating for essential oils as a treatment for cancer or something. It's real medicine backed by real doctors with some examples of success so far. Dismissing it completely doesn't seem like a wise move for "the party of science."

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The left thinks that you shouldn't be permitted to say things like this. Moderators, take down this post.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Can you imagine of Obama had tweeted this? You guys would have been going absolutely apeshit (rightly so), but because it's Trump you guys can't stockpile enough Hydroxycholorquine.

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This pretty much encapsulates the state of politics right now (and I'm not talking about the validity of Hydroxycholorquine). It's rare that anyone on either side of the aisle will ever admit that someone across the aisle may have a good idea or raise a valid point. If my guys says it than it's fine, but if the other guy says it then it's immediately discounted.

I found this pretty interesting. Though I don't agree with some of the proposals (automatic voter registration and vote from home are too open to being corrupted) it's something I could get behind.

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-kno...cal-system-has

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Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

I think when we look back on this time the hydroxychloroquine debate will be one of the sillier things to ever enter the public debate. The fact that any lay person has an opinion they feel need to defend on this subject is just bizarre (and I am not saying that as someone who hasn't had arguments over it, I fully admit that I have been infected by the 2020 silliness).

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Not only is it silly but it’s complete BS this drug has been so politicized especially during a pandemic. You even had a complete bogus study published in NEJM and the Lancet. What was the motive of the lead investigator? Studies have varied for its utility on Covid. However, if a doctor feels it may help and discusses risk/benefit with patient, then go for it. I mean if a patient was dying of cancer, some oncologists would be throwing the kitchen sink at the disease.

What ever happened to listen to the medical professionals? Yes, Trump should’ve stayed in his lane, but in typical fashion the press went out of their way to prove him wrong even before the facts are/were out. In my 20 some years in medicine, this has definitely been a first.

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Originally Posted by noteggs

Not only is it silly but it’s complete BS this drug has been so politicized especially during a pandemic. You even had a complete bogus study published in NEJM and the Lancet. What was the motive of the lead investigator? Studies have varied for its utility on Covid. However, if a doctor feels it may help and discusses risk/benefit with patient, then go for it. I mean if a patient was dying of cancer, some oncologists would be throwing the kitchen sink at the disease.

What ever happened to listen to the medical professionals? Yes, Trump should’ve stayed in his lane, but in typical fashion the press went out of their way to prove him wrong even before the facts are/were out. In my 20 some years in medicine, this has definitely been a first.

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I agree with this wholeheartedly however the reason this is politicized is because of the President, not because of the media. If he continues to spread/promote misinformation I would hope he would be called out on it. HCQ is not a cure for COVID, and I believe we should all be able to agree on that, but he promotes a video by a doctor that states just that. He can’t let it go as if to belabor a point from months ago.

If we are going to criticize the Lancet and others for having observational studies, we can’t promote the same type of study that XU_LOU posted from Henry Ford. This is a good summary of why these studies shouldn’t be promoted as new and exciting data. The quote by Dr. Nissen sums up my thoughts: “As soon as we stop talking about hydroxychloroquine, the sooner we can focus attention on more promising therapies.”

Personally I would not hesitate to take HCQ in an outpatient setting based on my health and risk factors, but there are many I would be hesitant to recommend it for, based on the doses recommended to treat COVID (1400-2000mg loading doses).