Which is also not a coincidence as to why our education keeps falling further and further behind other first world nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedXblue
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Which is also not a coincidence as to why our education keeps falling further and further behind other first world nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedXblue
Sometimes it’s not just what you say, but more how you say it. He sounded very cavalier about the whole thing. Acknowledge that it’s just not that simple. Location and infection rate will do much to to dictate what is appropriate, but the kids need to get back as soon as is reasonably possible....hopefully sooner than later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
It's definitely a challenge, and perhaps one with no "good" solutions. Online learning, staggered classes, lots of distancing, alternative days and other things to look at. But the reason that the EU is going back to school, and why we have such a challenge, is all in this one chart; and they've got 100 million more people than we do. If we were at 4000 cases a day, instead of 66,000, perhaps we could open schools safely.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/...mal/22102.jpeg
Little Andy Beshear is 100% LYING though his teeth. In his presser today he showed a chart of states that currently have above 15% positivity rates - states that he has placed on a travel advisory. The one state on that graph that I'm familiar with is Florida. He stated that their positivity rate is 18.72%:
https://twitter.com/WKYTNick/status/...255621/photo/1
Where did he get that figure? Obviously not from the state itself. Why? FLA's positivity rate was 18.15% in the official stats today (up from 14.26% yesterday):
See page 2: https://floridadisaster.org/globalas...s_20200720.pdf
Not only is he not using official state data, but far more importantly, he's obviously using all test results. In other words, the 18.15% reflects people who have tested positive on multiple occasions. The reason I've been looking at FLA's data is because they also report "Percent positivity for new cases" ("This percent is the number of people who test PCR- or antigen-positive for the first time divided by all the people tested that day, excluding people who have previously tested positive"). That number was 14.74% today, versus 11.83% yesterday. This is an extremely important distinction - this is the metric that ALL sources should use. Obviously KY isn't, which leads me to believe that it's very likely that most states don't use this metric, and that national statistics reflect multiple positive tests for individuals.
Additionally, we the public, as well as the state of KY, should ask whether the state of FLA has corrected their numbers after we found out last week that testing labs in that state were not reporting their negative tests - thus making the percent of positive tests look higher:
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fo...vid-19-results
What’s odd is that deaths in the US is only about double Europe’s total (maybe a little more) while our case count is 15x theirs. There is some sort of major disconnect there.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...opment-europe/
Really good point. But their death numbers seem to go down along the curve of their positive case reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by XU '11
I'm praying that ours doesn't go up dramatically in the next two weeks to follow our curve.
I don't know what the "Global Research" you refer to is, and I haven't heard of Off-Guardian where the article came from either. But if they're garbage like CNN from the other side, I'll take you word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
How about these accounts of false positives?
http://www.int-soc-clin-geriat.com/i...SARS-CoV-2.pdf
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...onavirus-tests (check the preprint linked in here as well).
The problem with the PCR "nearly all tests tested at 100% specificity" you cite in a separate post, is that these are done clinically, where the tests are administered, handled, run and reported flawlessly. What really happens in the real world is entirely different.
I know enough about analytical testing to know what is going on now is not ideal. Multiple tests from dozens of manufacturers, all rushed to the market without properly developed standard operating procedures for testing, quality control measures for both sample collection and sample analysis, and sloppy data management.
My point is that we are putting a lot of stake in the accuracy of these tests, much more than they deserve. We need to be careful.
Spot on 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
https://www.uvm.edu/uvmnews/news/kid...cs-top-journal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-nordic-study
They have a greater chance of dying from the flu.
Keeping kids home is absolutely stupid... and the kids will end up intellectually and socially stupid for it.
http://www.truthinourtime.com/forum/...d.php?t=115470
https://alphanewsmn.com/school-closi...days-students/
The science on kids transmitting is not fully baked from what I understand. I have a co-worker (in Florida - shocker) who caught COVID from her 10 year old, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
I do think that we generally do need to get kids back in school, or at least give parents the option. It places a disproportionate burden on lower income families, as well as dual income families from almost any income strata.
I'm not super enthusiastic about sending my kids back to school, but I probably will as long as NJ stays under control as it is right now. My wife doesn't work so could relatively easily keep them home, but my kids all love school and I would hate to deprive them of the socialization. We looked into hiring a teacher to administer home schooling (ideally with several other families from my neighborhood) but it doesn't seem like it would provide for the same level of socialization as going to school.
I know. We should start with science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xville
This chart says a lot, in my opinion. With Europe's relative population density they should be faring much worse than the US. The most significant difference I can find is that Europeans are universally wearing masks and have been for some time. It's almost like they have figured something out that we haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
So far it seems like kids are pretty resilient to the virus.
That of course is not the problem. If you put them in close quarters with non family, they are more likely to get it.
They will probably be OK. Not so much their parents/grandparents.
Tough sledding ahead.
Edit: promising news from UK on a potential vaccine with good early trial results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
I believe those current trials only go up to those 55 years old. The serious trouble lies with those above that age, but I’ll pray for the best! It’s certainly encouraging.
I have no problem with kids going back to school with a good plan. I have a kid in pre school. Our other 3 kids are 1, our son needs to get out of the house and interact with other kids his age. I want him to be able to go back. We have had to be more cautious than most though since I have immune issues. So I hope his pre school, which is working on a plan and getting feedback from families, comes up with a good plan so we can send him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice
The comments and the flippant attitude about kids getting it is what is frustrating to me. There are more than just the kids that are in schools. teachers, administrators, support staff etc. I wish we knew more about kids passing the virus along to others. I understand research is showing they dont get very sick typically when they are positive. Some research I think is showing they dont transmit the virus to others at the same rate adults do either. I hope that is true, that would be great.
If my son's pre school is open we will most likely send him. I just want to know there is a plan in place to do everything within the school's capabilities to keep him, his classmates, and their teachers etc safe and healthy.
The “Global Research” I referred to was your source for that article. The first link that you provided was on the website globalresearch.ca, which is a website basically that promotes conspiracy theories. Did you really link an article from a site that you have no knowledge of? Look, it happens in this day and age where there is false information everywhere. But at least own it, as hours earlier you directed criticism in the form of “be better, Bobby”. It turned into “hold my beer, Bobby.” CNN is biased/slanted whatever word you want to describe it, but it is news and not complete false info, or “garbage” as you may have called it. That same CNN article Bobby linked in the other thread was updated a few hours later to contain the correct information and clarified the timeline of the cases. I doubt you will see the “garbage” website you sourced do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
Regarding PCR testing, you will see false positives of course. But the point is you will always see far more false negatives in the real world population. If we have 3% false positives, that is not ideal by any stretch, but in real life we see ~30% false negatives, maybe more. The real life variables you speak of (human error, lab error, handling error, etc. is FAR more likely to cause a false negative. If the common goal is to eradicate this illness we need less false negatives. Worrying about the false positives seems like pushing an agenda that the disease isn’t widespread or serious. I could be wrong but that’s how I interpret the caution with false positives. Questioning accuracy is a good thing, I just think you are questioning the wrong side of the coin.
I read the zebra mussels article and I came away wondering why we are comparing PCR testing from large bodies of water to a swab in the nasopharyngeal cavity. I still hold the opinion that the false positives we see are those that are recovered with viral remnants in their bodies. Those count as false positives.
It goes beyond the people physically present each day as you know. It goes to each person down the chain, and that is where the troubles can begin.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
Public reps is apparently all I can give you, unfortunately.
Honestly, I don't think there's a way to do in person school "safely" right now. You either decide kids going to school is important enough to take the risks that come with it, or you decide it is not. I don't think there's much of a middle ground. You can have masks and handwashing and some distancing, but at the end of the day it's mostly window dressing. We're willing to take the risk or we're not.
I agree with a lot of what this article has to say. There are pockets of head scratchers in various parts of the world. As Go says it depends on what risks we are willing to take. My personal opinion is to have kids go back full time in areas that are not hot spots. I think Florida is nuts for considering it right now. The urban communities will not have the resources to safely open, yet if they don’t it seems to dig the community in a bigger hole, not to mention there is still a problem with many many homes not having an internet connection (also applies to rural communities to a lesser extent).
We have friends that have decided not to send their kids this year and pay one of the moms (a teacher) to teach the kids in these families, creating a small bubble. This screams elitist as I am aware this is not an option for many but perhaps other pockets like this will appear which does thin out the classrooms some creating more space. I do not envy the schools in generating plans, and I still stand by paid time off for all working Americans/parents when their kids get sick. Less chance if infecting grandma, teachers, staff, other kids.
I wish that I didn't completely agree with this, but I think you are right. There are obviously different levels of risk depending on the incidence of COVID in a given community, but it won't be risk free.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
This is one of the options we are considering. I agree that it does seem elitist. We don't feel great about that, but at the end of the day I guess I just don't care when it comes down to my kids' education and safety. I'm more worried about the socialization aspect, which is why we are probably leaning toward sending them back to school. It also helps that New Jersey is down to (I think) about 3 confirmed cases per 100,000 residents. If it stays that way it seems relatively safe to send them back. If we were in Florida or Texas I wouldn't be considering it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
https://www.dispatch.com/news/202007...s-back-on-rise
Quote:
Early state and local data for 2020 shows drug deaths continue to climb and those on the front lines say the coronavirus outbreak, and the isolation, problems and disruptions that come with it, are likely fueling the problem.
“For people in recovery, a lot of people gain their strength from going to meetings, being with people in recovery, and it’s hard to get that now. People are isolated, quarantined. It’s tough,” said Cheri Walter, chief executive officer of the Ohio Association of County Behavioral Health Authorities.
“People in long-term recovery are relapsing,” she said. “We’re calling it deaths of despair. People just don’t know what to do, where to turn.”
People struggling with addiction often turn to alcohol or drugs because they are unable to deal with stress, Walter said.
Franklin County Coroner Dr. Anahi Ortiz has raised similar concerns.
“It’s really important if you are in recovery to talk to someone everyday,” Ortiz told The Dispatch in April when she reported a 14% spike in the county’s 2019 drug deaths.
Not a lot of people can say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-West & PO-Z
Posted without comment...
Except - Barely Used
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/n...ta-queens.html
I like your idea on paid leave as long as it comes from the company side vs feds or state. As for being elitism? maybe, but who really cares when you’re trying to do what’s best for your family especially in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
All I know from an academic perspective, we have to do something different then just online. The standards were much lower for the vast majority of kids. Heck, my senior in HS had her finals canceled and her AP exams cut in half. This is on top of the social aspect which is equally important IMO and as Booze pointed out.
We haven't heard for sure, but we've been getting some hints that our school district is going to be full-time online. We've talked about staying in the school, but hiring a full-time tutor to help with lesson plans. My wife and I both have pretty intense jobs, so tacking on third grade teacher for a full year isn't going to work for either of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Fake news alert! CBS Evening news just reported "85 babies under one with COVID one Texas county, one dead". LIES.
Do any of you actually believe anything you hear from the MSM anymore?
I feel as though local news, for the most part, is objective so that is about all I watch. Cable news outside of CNBC is complete drivel..fox, cbs, NBC, MSNBC, cnn, espn..take your pick it's all junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
The FFCRA did provide sick leave for employees who either have COVID19 or caring for kids with COVID19 at work places under 500 employees. The employer pays and gets a refundable tax credit for the expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
As to NotEggs, if it has to come from the company side they simply won't do it. If this is for the greater good of society, then the government is going to need to fund it.
And I'd rather they focus stimulus funding on things like that rather than sending most of the country a check for $1200 whether they need it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Ha, lucky bastards!Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu
Yes which is great for many...key word I used is “all working Americans.” For instance, Walmart does not offer parents paid time off unless they have vacation hours to burn. FFCRA is a good start but still falls short of a universal plan that so many other successful nations have.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Yes, we are way past the point of penny pinching federal spending (well before COVID, too) for us to say policies like this would be too costly. Cut our losses and do it right from here on out. If we have to close schools again it’s going to be way worse the second time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Is this an advertisement to get rid of private health and switch to universal health? Sure seems like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterofreality
I think "safe" is a relative term.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMuskies
A year ago, you were still subjecting kids to some level of risk, whether it's a school bus crash, the flu, or a school shooting. So you're absolutely right that there is absolutely no way of guaranteeing that your child won't die of COVID if they return to school this fall. But you couldn't make that guarantee in years past either.
Isn't it time to combine the Politics and Covid threads ? All the gloom and doom reporting by the media will go away the day after the Election, should Trump lose. The mission will have been accomplished. It's really sick, actually pathetic that liberals, with the help of the Chinese, would let people die and wreck the economy, because they hate Trump. Now the Chinese, they are afraid of Trump and want a puppet like Biden in charge, who they can bully. The liberals are fine with the country being a mess financially. Is it just coincidence that Covid flared up as the stock market was recovering, unemployment was dropping, and Trump's ratings were moving upward ?
This is just complete nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Trying to seriously figure out if he is serious or if it is satire.
Posted without comment, except that Cuomo is a fraud.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/5472713002/
Gawd no. It’s a commentary against the city and state f-up, that is well documented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun
Yeah, let’s have a government that screwed this up in charge of all heath care!! Great idea!
What crazy conspiracy theory are pushing here? I am not sure even how to unpack this statement. You do know that the liberals are not in charge of the Federal Government nor do the run a majority of the state governments.Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG
No kidding. I have no idea what to make of that word salad. Particularly as COVID cases are spiking like crazy and even Trump is backpedaling on the mask issue I don't think that the Democrats and the media are somehow responsible for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL_XUfan
Call it an overreaction on the Media's part to COVID if you want, but even Trump seems to suddenly be taking things a lot more seriously and pivoting instead of doubling down. That doesn't happen for no reason.
Is it true the the worse the pandemic is, the worse it is for Trump?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Does the media have an agenda against Trump?
Has the media been proven to sensationalize, present incomplete truths, and even lie?
If the answer to these three questions is "yes", then you have to acknowledge that it's not complete non-sense.
You have to at least give it to Santa Clara County for honesty, but not integrity. This was in their COVID dashboard notes:
https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19...ard-cases.aspxQuote:
Deaths provided in this dashboard do not necessarily mean that the individuals died from COVID-19.
Did you just try to use the Chewbacca Defense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton
The statement was:
"It's really sick, actually pathetic that liberals, with the help of the Chinese, would let people die and wreck the economy, because they hate Trump. Now the Chinese, they are afraid of Trump and want a puppet like Biden in charge, who they can bully. The liberals are fine with the country being a mess financially. Is it just coincidence that Covid flared up as the stock market was recovering, unemployment was dropping, and Trump's ratings were moving upward ?"
So lets break this down:
1. "that liberals, with the help of the Chinese, would let people and wreck the economy" - This is making an assumption that 1. the liberals are conspired with the Chinese to create a global pandemic to harm the president, 2. This plot would be effective since they knew the president wouldn't be able to effectively handle it, and 3. the rest of the world came along for the ride.
2. "The liberals are fine with the country being a mess financially." - if this is true why would the liberals have voted for any sort of relief package, especially if the goal was to wreck the economy. Seems easier to dig their heels in the sand to achieve that goal.
3 "Is it just coincidence that Covid flared up as the stock market was recovering, unemployment was dropping, and Trump's ratings were moving upward"- This once again makes the assumption that this was created just to harm Trump. That a foreign power, working in-cahoots with 'liberals', saw how great everything was and decided to release a novel coronavirus in 2019 to throw a wrench in that. If that is true, why not wait closer to the election? Why release it in China first instead of just releasing it in the US?
So yeah, the batshit qannon conspiracy crap spewed by JTG was complete nonsense.