Politics Thread

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06-09-2020, 05:49 AM
X-man

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterofreality

A link or it's a lie on that percentage.

Also. Out of control from what side? The rioters and arsonists, or the "law and order" side?

There is tons of "out of control" behavior from the Left for sure. And how about "out of control" press like the Washington Post tweeting out a prewritten story at 7:45am Friday saying that the unemployment rate hit 20% in advance of the BLS numbers. Oh, they had to pull that story 15 minutes later when the actual numbers came out adding 2.5 million jobs and dropping the unemployment to around 13%. Yeah, credible news source. What happened to waiting on the stats, then reporting the news from it? Oh. "narrative"....

And, yeah. Good old dependable Paul Krugman in the NYT stating directly in his article that someone from Trump "got to" the BLS to change the numbers. Ahahahahahahaha. The "BLS" consists of 2,400 non politically appointed employees who statistically put this stuff together with zero contact from the executive branch. NO ONE is playing with the numbers and Krugman still having a forum is ludicrous...but after all, it is the NYT.

As usual, not true. Link to Krugman piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/o...gtype=Homepage
06-09-2020, 06:46 AM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjf123

The Left is going to have to tread lightly here. In order to be able to easily get rid of bad cops, the unions must be less powerful and ready to abandon its members to satisfy the political winds. Will the Left really campaign against the police unions?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure. I think that the protesters and the 'activist' side of the Democratic party would trade Police Unions for increased accountability, however the mainstream Democrats have long relied on those endorsements, particularly in State and Local elections.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juice

You can't have them on at all hours when on duty. That amount of data is costly. Also, they're turned off when personal conversations are being had between officers or if they're on the phone with a family, or other situations like that.

And most police are fine with the body cams because it often shows that they did or didn't do something contrary to what a suspect/defendant may allege.

Which is OK, but I saw a decent amount of footage of Police with tape over their body cams when responding to the riots. I think those officers should be fired. That's a pretty ominous message about what they are there to do.

Similarly, if you 'accidentally' forgot to turn your body cam on a certain number of times when engaging with suspects I would expect to see escalating disciplinary action ultimately leading to termination.
06-09-2020, 08:20 AM
Lamont Sanford

Considering the concept of defunding and/or actually dismantling police departments is such a major talking point for the leftists...I'm curious to know who on here is for dismantling police departments across the country and why. As someone who is COMPLETELY against it, please educate me on what benefits I must be missing.
06-09-2020, 08:53 AM
STL_XUfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamont Sanford

Considering the concept of defunding and/or actually dismantling police departments is such a major talking point for the leftists...I'm curious to know who on here is for dismantling police departments across the country and why. As someone who is COMPLETELY against it, please educate me on what benefits I must be missing.

So the problem with the Democrats is that they are awful at naming shit (something the republicans are great at). Any phrase they come up with is easily able to be turned into a weapon against them.

The proposals I have heard from those pushing the "defund police" concept, isn't really terminating police departments but instead trying to reimagine what community policing looks like. As of right now everything that society doesn't want to deal with falls on the police, namely mental illness and homelessness. Instead of sending a man with a gun to deal with these situations, they would send social workers. This would remove the burden from the police dept. and allow them to concentrate on crime. This would be paid for by shifting police funding into these alternative solutions.

I don't think any sane person is saying that we have no need for a police dept. at all, but instead maybe the status quo ain't working and we should rethink how we handle some of these situations.
06-09-2020, 08:53 AM
XU 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-man

As usual, not true. Link to Krugman piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/o...gtype=Homepage

It was actually on Krugman's twitter page on June 5 where he questioned whether Trump got to the BLS to change the numbers:

https://twitter.com/KimStrassel?ref_...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Scroll about halfway down Strassel's page.

I guess Paul changed his mind after the Harvard econ. professor, who worked in the Obama administration, told Paul that he was 100% wrong.
06-09-2020, 08:57 AM
paulxu

Let's hope we can get back to regular employment numbers a lot faster than last time. Good to see it headed in the right direction:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1wpr-PXEs...ionMay2020.PNG
06-09-2020, 09:12 AM
Xville

Quote:

Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

So the problem with the Democrats is that they are awful at naming shit (something the republicans are great at). Any phrase they come up with is easily able to be turned into a weapon against them.

The proposals I have heard from those pushing the "defund police" concept, isn't really terminating police departments but instead trying to reimagine what community policing looks like. As of right now everything that society doesn't want to deal with falls on the police, namely mental illness and homelessness. Instead of sending a man with a gun to deal with these situations, they would send social workers. This would remove the burden from the police dept. and allow them to concentrate on crime. This would be paid for by shifting police funding into these alternative solutions.

I don't think any sane person is saying that we have no need for a police dept. at all, but instead maybe the status quo ain't working and we should rethink how we handle some of these situations.

This is typical of the way America fixes things...let's put a bandaid on it, and hope that helps. Defunding police to give to social workers or "community programs" is so typical of not actually fixing the issue.

My thought to fix things would be to first break up the police union, look into hiring and firing practices, further fund the police to develop training and development programs, institute stringent performance reviews etc., but no let's do the stupid thing and just move the issues to some other department or program that also hasnt worked for decades upon decades while city communities suffer.
06-09-2020, 09:58 AM
xubrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoMuskies

You can't make this stuff up. One of the big new slogans coming from (certain segments of) the left is "Silence is consent". Just let that marinate for a second.

My check please!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by XU 87

I am part of that 80% that believes the country is out of control. I also don't blame Trump, and I don't particularly like Trump.

So, it sounds like 20 percent of the people in this country are complete morons. Only 20! That's better than I thought.

I don't really blame Trump either. I do think that to a large degree his approach enables him to personally thrive when things are out of control. But, I agree that he's hardly the genesis of why things are out of control.
06-09-2020, 10:11 AM
Lamont Sanford

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xville

This is typical of the way America fixes things...let's put a bandaid on it, and hope that helps. Defunding police to give to social workers or "community programs" is so typical of not actually fixing the issue.

My thought to fix things would be to first break up the police union, look into hiring and firing practices, further fund the police to develop training and development programs, institute stringent performance reviews etc., but no let's do the stupid thing and just move the issues to some other department or program that also hasnt worked for decades upon decades while city communities suffer.

Good luck trying to break up the police unions across the country. Unions have protected bad cops, bad teachers, bad auto workers, etc etc for years. Ain't gonna happen. Also, good luck convincing a social worker that he/she now has to deal with domestic dispute calls which are commonly the most dangerous for cops.
06-09-2020, 11:19 AM
Muskie in dayton

Quote:

Originally Posted by STL_XUfan

So the problem with the Democrats is that they are awful at naming shit (something the republicans are great at). Any phrase they come up with is easily able to be turned into a weapon against them.

The proposals I have heard from those pushing the "defund police" concept, isn't really terminating police departments but instead trying to reimagine what community policing looks like. As of right now everything that society doesn't want to deal with falls on the police, namely mental illness and homelessness. Instead of sending a man with a gun to deal with these situations, they would send social workers. This would remove the burden from the police dept. and allow them to concentrate on crime. This would be paid for by shifting police funding into these alternative solutions.

I don't think any sane person is saying that we have no need for a police dept. at all, but instead maybe the status quo ain't working and we should rethink how we handle some of these situations.

I wish you were right. A friend sent me some examples of community postings from a small liberal city in Michigan, as part of a campaign to defund the police. Because they seriously, really do, want a world without police:

1. "Someone seems to be snooping in car windows on your block. IMAGINE... calling your neighbors who are trained in self-defense & deescalation & approaching the person. An hour later the conflict is resolved & the person responsible is getting the support they need. Isn't that PUBLIC SAFETY?"

2.
"You are experiencing intimate partner violence. IMAGINE... texting a number & a trauma informed crisis intervention specialist meets you in a safe place. An hour later you are working together to make a plan that will keep you safe long term. Isn't that PUBLIC SAFETY?"

3.
"Incidents of gun violence are rising in the neighborhood. IMAGINE... a trauma informed crisis intervention team works with community activists to disarm and deescalate conflicts. People doing harm are connected to services that address the underlying problem. Isn't that PUBLIC SAFETY?"

I promise I'm not making this stuff up. I wish I were.