Covid-19

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08-17-2021, 07:54 PM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sure, but what does that have to do with this conversation?

I'm going to assume at this point that you are being intentionally obtuse, although I'm not exactly sure why (yet).

1. While it looks increasingly like unvaccinated people can spread the disease, the evidence still points to the unvaccinated as the major sources of transmission. This transmission increases the risk of infection for unvaccinated children and the immunocompromised. It also increases the potential for variants to emerge that could negatively impact the population at large.

2. Hordes of people being admitted to the ICU as a result of their 'choice' strains the healthcare system and reduces the standard of care for other folks. For example: My 5 year old broke his arm last weekend and I had to take him to the ER. Fortunately we live in a highly vaccinated area where the pediatric ER was not overrun with kids with COVID, but that's not the case everywhere and it impacts the standard of care some people receive through no fault or choice of their own. In some cases cancer treatments and needed surgeries are being delayed because the hospitals don't have the beds.

I get that you are the "personal choice guy" on this board, but since we all live in a society together nobody gets to make choices in a complete vacuum, and I think it's a bit naïve to engage in a philosophical exercise as though our choices don't have an impact on others. I don't think that the government should necessarily force people to get vaccinated, but I do think we should make it difficult for them to participate in society if they choose not to. Which is basically how a society works at it's most basic level - you agree to abide by some rules (whether codified or unspoken) and if you don't you either get shunned or arrested depending on the severity of the offense.
08-17-2021, 08:05 PM
Xville

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

I'm going to assume at this point that you are being intentionally obtuse, although I'm not exactly sure why (yet).

1. While it looks increasingly like unvaccinated people can spread the disease, the evidence still points to the unvaccinated as the major sources of transmission. This transmission increases the risk of infection for unvaccinated children and the immunocompromised. It also increases the potential for variants to emerge that could negatively impact the population at large.

2. Hordes of people being admitted to the ICU as a result of their 'choice' strains the healthcare system and reduces the standard of care for other folks. For example: My 5 year old broke his arm last weekend and I had to take him to the ER. Fortunately we live in a highly vaccinated area where the pediatric ER was not overrun with kids with COVID, but that's not the case everywhere and it impacts the standard of care some people receive through no fault or choice of their own. In some cases cancer treatments and needed surgeries are being delayed because the hospitals don't have the beds.

I get that you are the "personal choice guy" on this board, but since we all live in a society together nobody gets to make choices in a complete vacuum, and I think it's a bit naïve to engage in a philosophical exercise as though our choices don't have an impact on others. I don't think that the government should necessarily force people to get vaccinated, but I do think we should make it difficult for them to participate in society if they choose not to. Which is basically how a society works at it's most basic level - you agree to abide by some rules (whether codified or unspoken) and if you don't you either get shunned or arrested depending on the severity of the offense.

Yep…all of this. Public reps.
08-17-2021, 08:24 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

I'm going to assume at this point that you are being intentionally obtuse, although I'm not exactly sure why (yet).

1. While it looks increasingly like unvaccinated people can spread the disease, the evidence still points to the unvaccinated as the major sources of transmission. This transmission increases the risk of infection for unvaccinated children and the immunocompromised. It also increases the potential for variants to emerge that could negatively impact the population at large.

2. Hordes of people being admitted to the ICU as a result of their 'choice' strains the healthcare system and reduces the standard of care for other folks. For example: My 5 year old broke his arm last weekend and I had to take him to the ER. Fortunately we live in a highly vaccinated area where the pediatric ER was not overrun with kids with COVID, but that's not the case everywhere and it impacts the standard of care some people receive through no fault or choice of their own. In some cases cancer treatments and needed surgeries are being delayed because the hospitals don't have the beds.

I get that you are the "personal choice guy" on this board, but since we all live in a society together nobody gets to make choices in a complete vacuum, and I think it's a bit naïve to engage in a philosophical exercise as though our choices don't have an impact on others. I don't think that the government should necessarily force people to get vaccinated, but I do think we should make it difficult for them to participate in society if they choose not to. Which is basically how a society works at it's most basic level - you agree to abide by some rules (whether codified or unspoken) and if you don't you either get shunned or arrested depending on the severity of the offense.

Objectively your child’s choice that broke his arm put strain on a crowded system. Hope he’s ok (and doesn’t need surgery), that sucks especially if it’s his dominate arm. Been there. No fun.

As a father of young ones myself there are bigger concerns than whether Lou gets a shot.

As to the rest. I’d much rather live in a society of free choice than an over protective bubble state.
08-17-2021, 08:27 PM
xu82

This should get even MORE fun now!
08-17-2021, 08:43 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by xu82

This should get even MORE fun now!

It’s long past time to Old Yeller this thread.
08-17-2021, 08:57 PM
boozehound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Objectively your child’s choice that broke his arm put strain on a crowded system. Hope he’s ok (and doesn’t need surgery), that sucks especially if it’s his dominate arm. Been there. No fun.

As a father of young ones myself there are bigger concerns than whether Lou gets a shot.

As to the rest. I’d much rather live in a society of free choice than an over protective bubble state.

That's low, even by the standards of this thread.

Maybe I should have a talk with him about his choice to fall on the stairs and break his arm? While I'm at it I'll make sure to tell him not to choose to get cancer like the other kid I saw being wheeled in while we were there. Then I would really have to worry about him getting COVID, what with the Chemotherapy and all.

That's a truly ridiculous argument that I think you might want to reconsider.
08-17-2021, 09:11 PM
xu82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It’s long past time to Old Yeller this thread.

With all due respect, the “thread” is not the only problem. The “issue” is kind of a big deal. It’s been in the news. You’ve probably seen it.

How people handle this is the biggest curiosity to me.
08-17-2021, 09:16 PM
Muskie in dayton

We went from “pandemic of the unvaccinated” to “everyone needs a booster shot” almost as quickly as Afghanistan fell to the Taliban.

Reality is setting in. But it’s really not so bad.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/
08-17-2021, 09:33 PM
principal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

We went from “pandemic of the unvaccinated” to “everyone needs a booster shot” almost as quickly as Afghanistan fell to the Taliban.

Reality is setting in. But it’s really not so bad.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/

I always appreciate an article where a case is presented without unnecessarily condemning one side or the other.
08-17-2021, 09:35 PM
Strange Brew

Quote:

Originally Posted by boozehound

That's low, even by the standards of this thread.

Maybe I should have a talk with him about his choice to fall on the stairs and break his arm? While I'm at it I'll make sure to tell him not to choose to get cancer like the other kid I saw being wheeled in while we were there. Then I would really have to worry about him getting COVID, what with the Chemotherapy and all.

That's a truly ridiculous argument that I think you might want to reconsider.

I truly feel bad for your son. I’ve sat in ER triage for hours at least a dozen times with broken bones, dislocated limbs and sometimes not knowing where I am. It sucks. It’s painful and you see awful things that put your situation in perspective.

However, your argument was based on healthcare system stresses. My disgust is not with the 30% of fellow travelers but with the sick Franken docs who toy with these viruses and have the nerve to pass the responsibility for the consequences onto the masses. Pure Sociopaths.

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