Covid-19

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html



This statement shows they have investigated reported deaths and failed to show causal relationship between vaccination and deaths with the exception of clots from the J&J vaccine. Perhaps some deaths are unrealized or unreported. There has to be at least one right? Most likely scenario is that deaths are extraordinarily rare probably far less than 6,000.

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I don’t think the vax causes death however it doesn’t mean you won’t get COVID or the variants or die from it. The issue is mandating it because it prevents the spread. It does, to what extent is not really known if we’re honest. Also, the vax is not fully approved. These are the reasons I understand why others are reluctant as I can’t claim to know what’s best for anyone else. Neither can the Gov’t.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html



This statement shows they have investigated reported deaths and failed to show causal relationship between vaccination and deaths with the exception of clots from the J&J vaccine. Perhaps some deaths are unrealized or unreported. There has to be at least one right? Most likely scenario is that deaths are extraordinarily rare probably far less than 6,000.

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Good info, thanks. The CDC should be removing them from VAERS with a footnote if truly there is no correlation. IÂ’ll revert to my alternate hypothesis.

Going back to the what prompted the VAERS data discussion is that there is clearly still some (albeit very small) risk from the vaccine. For many, their risk of COVID is also very small. One should have the choice of which risk they will accept.

Can anyone tell me how many cases, hospitalizations and deaths came from the Delta variant versus the original Covid virus yesterday, last week and last month?

Also, is there a new test now being used nationwide that distinguishes between the Delta variant and the original Covid virus?

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Originally Posted by Muskie in dayton

Good info, thanks. The CDC should be removing them from VAERS with a footnote if truly there is no correlation. IÂ’ll revert to my alternate hypothesis.

Going back to the what prompted the VAERS data discussion is that there is clearly still some (albeit very small) risk from the vaccine. For many, their risk of COVID is also very small. One should have the choice of which risk they will accept.

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This is really the core of the argument. Individualism vs the Common Good. We sacrifice personal freedoms everyday for the common good of society. It’s just that people are used to these sacrifices. Because we live in a primarily Individualistic society any suggestion to contribute to the collective good of society is typically questioned. Which is fine, but when there is a large threat to us as a society the collective approach would likely result in quicker eradication.

However, even on the individual level, risk from the disease supersedes risk from the vaccine in the overwhelming vast majority of people. When we remove death and hospitalizations and apply it to those that are considered low risk, long term issues from the disease continue to outnumber any long term issues from the vaccine at a very high rate.

So yes, we should have the choice but also are not free from criticism from society that is frequently harmed from that person’s choice.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

This statement shows they have investigated reported deaths and failed to show causal relationship between vaccination and deaths with the exception of clots from the J&J vaccine. Perhaps some deaths are unrealized or unreported. There has to be at least one right? Most likely scenario is that deaths are extraordinarily rare probably far less than 6,000.

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The explanation from the CDC is disturbingly vague - just like all of their communications. Notice, no specifics or refutations on those deaths. What is the actual number of deaths with causal links to the vaccine? Why doesn't the CDC provide a follow-up report to the VAERS report that shows verified numbers?

Again, we continue to take Fauci and the CDC at their word, when they have been proven to have lied to us on numerous occasions. Show us the data!

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

This is really the core of the argument. Individualism vs the Common Good. We sacrifice personal freedoms everyday for the common good of society. It’s just that people are used to these sacrifices. Because we live in a primarily Individualistic society any suggestion to contribute to the collective good of society is typically questioned. Which is fine, but when there is a large threat to us as a society the collective approach would likely result in quicker eradication.

However, even on the individual level, risk from the disease supersedes risk from the vaccine in the overwhelming vast majority of people. When we remove death and hospitalizations and apply it to those that are considered low risk, long term issues from the disease continue to outnumber any long term issues from the vaccine at a very high rate.

So yes, we should have the choice but also are not free from criticism from society that is frequently harmed from that person’s choice.

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Who determines the "Common Good" and what freedoms of others are worth sacrificing?

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Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Who determines the "Common Good" and what freedoms of others are worth sacrificing?

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Twitter and on occasion Facebook/Insta

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

Twitter and on occasion Facebook/Insta

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Well played. :)

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Braun

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html



This statement shows they have investigated reported deaths and failed to show causal relationship between vaccination and deaths with the exception of clots from the J&J vaccine. Perhaps some deaths are unrealized or unreported. There has to be at least one right? Most likely scenario is that deaths are extraordinarily rare probably far less than 6,000.

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Right. Of course that shit has been investigated. Probably pretty extensively. Unfortunately that is rarely enough for some guy on the internet who has an 'alternative hypothesis' despite almost certainly having no medical or scientific background or training. If you take a 'you can't prove that it doesn't' approach you sort of always get to 'win' such as it is, since it's exceedingly difficult to prove a negative.

The overwhelming majority of the actual real data out there seems to suggest that the vaccine is safe and certainly effective enough to make getting it a good idea for almost everyone from a risk/reward perspective. I doubt there is a single age group for which the vaccine is riskier than getting COVID.

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Originally Posted by boozehound

Right. Of course that shit has been investigated. Probably pretty extensively. Unfortunately that is rarely enough for some guy on the internet who has an 'alternative hypothesis' despite almost certainly having no medical or scientific background or training. If you take a 'you can't prove that it doesn't' approach you sort of always get to 'win' such as it is, since it's exceedingly difficult to prove a negative.

The overwhelming majority of the actual real data out there seems to suggest that the vaccine is safe and certainly effective enough to make getting it a good idea for almost everyone from a risk/reward perspective. I doubt there is a single age group for which the vaccine is riskier than getting COVID.

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Sure, and there are age groups where it is unnecessary.